on Palestine pt.1 — identity and culture

[00:00:00] It felt like I was held by the earth and that the earth was hugging me. It was the most incredible experience of my life.

[00:00:13] And there is nothing, there is nothing that I will live. There is nowhere in the world that I can go that will give me that experience.

[00:00:22] Not one place in the world will give me that experience.

[00:00:31] This is a place where we talk about belonging.

[00:00:36] Welcome to the Inbetweenish. I'm Beatriz Nour, your host.

[00:00:41] Raised in three cultures, two religions and four languages. Trust me, I get the chaos.

[00:00:48] On the show, I chat with those who have lived that inbetweenish life, a foot here and a foot there, building bridges across cultures,

[00:00:56] and of course, the age old quest to finding home.

[00:01:07] On the Inbetweenish we talk about belonging, identity and finding home.

[00:01:11] And with that in mind, I think it's important to talk about a specific culture that has long been misrepresented by the media

[00:01:19] and either portrayed as a charity case or as a culture that breeds terrorism or as just another Arab culture.

[00:01:29] Before we get into it, I want to make my position clear.

[00:01:33] I don't think anyone, anywhere, should be killed, maimed, be imprisoned or taken hostage for belonging to a certain group or holding specific beliefs

[00:01:45] or for living on the wrong side of the border.

[00:01:48] This goes for both Palestinians and Israelis, for Muslims, Jews and Christians and any other religion, ethnic group or nationality.

[00:01:59] We all deserve the freedom to be able to exercise our culture and identities with dignity.

[00:02:07] Unfortunately, Palestinians have long been deprived of the strife because of the Israeli occupation.

[00:02:14] In this mini-series on Palestine, I will be amplifying Palestinian voices.

[00:02:18] So in every part you'll be hearing from the same three guests, Zina, who was part of the Palestinian diaspora,

[00:02:25] who was born and raised in the Arab world specifically in Jordan where there's a large Palestinian population.

[00:02:32] And then there's Faisal, who is also part of the Palestinian diaspora, but he was raised predominantly in the West during his younger developmental years,

[00:02:42] specifically in Canada and later on in Qatar, in the Gulf region.

[00:02:47] And the last guest you'll be hearing from is Nour, who was born and raised in Palestine specifically in the West Bank.

[00:02:55] They'll be sharing details about themselves throughout the series, however some details and names have been altered for protection and privacy.

[00:03:03] In part one of the on-Palestine series, we will be exploring Palestinian culture, heritage and identity.

[00:03:11] In part two, we will cover the Palestinian struggle for liberation.

[00:03:15] And in the last part, we're addressing a way forward with vulnerability and honesty.

[00:03:21] It's been a hard conversation given recent events, but it's an important one to have.

[00:03:26] So let's dive right into part one.

[00:03:30] In this first opening episode of the mini series on Palestine, we will be covering what it means to be Palestinian.

[00:03:41] The first question I asked them was to tell me about Palestine through their eyes as Palestinians.

[00:03:47] So first up, we have Zena.

[00:03:50] Something was going around the other day.

[00:03:55] And it was a line that I really felt so strongly about, which is just being Palestinian is the greater honor of my life.

[00:04:03] And I truly feel that and it got me really thinking about more about being Palestinian to hold such like I hold with such pride and honor.

[00:04:16] And I think given the situation for the past decades, there's often a painting of being Palestinian with that brush of turbulence, of oppression, of you know, a charity case almost.

[00:04:40] But really there's so much to Palestine and Palestinian culture and identity that is really rich and colorful.

[00:04:52] The first thing that comes to mind is the food.

[00:04:57] It's like Palestinian food is an identity, and it's something that we really hold very dear to our hearts.

[00:05:05] There's a lot of warmth, a lot of coming together.

[00:05:12] It's a very special communal experience that like it tracks back generations and its recipes and ways of cooking and flavors that are passed down like a broken telephone almost.

[00:05:34] One of my favorites is this dish that I always used to ask for when I would return back to Jordan and asked for my mother for it to be the first dish I ever have, which is called Malubeh, which literally means upside down.

[00:05:50] And it's everything good in one dish together. Basically you cook it like layers of chicken, rice and then different families have debates on what type of vegetables to have and some people make it with meat.

[00:06:03] We make it with chicken and then you have different vegetables inside carrots, zucchini with a whole lot of spices.

[00:06:11] And then when it's done, you basically flip the pot upside down on a plate. And that's why it's called upside down and then you sprinkle some almond and pine nuts on it.

[00:06:23] And then you have it with yogurt and a very finely chopped salad. And then alongside like staples on the table that are green olives, black olives, chasar which is like hot chalice, red chalice.

[00:06:42] We make them in like massive quantities and it's probably why it's so hard to like replicate in our generation because it's like who's around to eat that much food.

[00:06:55] But really it's just, it speaks to the communal and family aspect to it. It's not just you're like your clear family, it speaks to the tradition of neighbors, community, etc. to kind of like come and eat and I need together and you see that tradition lives through in all the difficult times that they go through now.

[00:07:19] It's just these little things that make you light up and kind of just remind you what it is to be Palestinian. It's really so much kindness and reverence for family and community and a lot of humor, a lot of lightness, a lot of even in war, even in all of that even when you're like really your more primal needs kick in.

[00:07:49] Everybody is a brother and a sister and we're all kind of in this together.

[00:07:55] Now let's hear face our perspective of what it means to be Palestinian.

[00:08:00] I'm a diaspora Palestinian so until the age of 25, I had never visited Palestine.

[00:08:13] Okay, I want you to remember this because we'll get back to it at the end of the episode.

[00:08:18] So I only knew Palestine through what was told to me and eventually what I was curious about and decided to research more.

[00:08:33] But Palestine for the very like in the very beginning of my life was about language, about food, about family, about you know my grandmother and my family, my aunt's aunt cousins.

[00:08:47] This was Palestine for me so it was a very intangible experience. It was a very cultural experience.

[00:08:58] Later on I became interested in and I think this is, I mean I have a career as a fashion designer prior to this kind of career as an artist.

[00:09:12] And I think this came about through my only tangible experience of Palestine which was textile, which were you know cushions and dressers that my mother had around the house.

[00:09:26] And for me to have this real kind of tactile experience with Palestine came through experiencing this embroidery and experiencing these colors and looky-ifs.

[00:09:39] And then trying to understand more about that which eventually led me to want to study fashion design.

[00:09:46] So this was my experience about my experience of being Palestinian, not in an emotional sense.

[00:10:00] I mean this was Palestine through my eyes, Palestine through my eyes was growing up not having Palestine.

[00:10:09] I think this is also something that the Asperer Palestinian's experience is not understanding what it looks like, not understanding what it means to be somewhere that you can call home, you know, not being able to relate to other people who, you know on summer vacation.

[00:10:29] Would go would go visit their grandparents around the world. I mean this is also me growing up in an international way with international students around me who each have families, you know, for right places around the world that they would go and visit which is not some, which is off my experience.

[00:10:51] I think that's something that a lot of cross-cultural people can relate to and are familiar with, you know the idea of going back home for the holidays, the idea of going back home for summers or winters, you know, home being the home country of either one of your parents.

[00:11:09] But the Palestinian experience is quite different because you don't have that privilege, you don't have that access to Palestine.

[00:11:19] I think a lot of people may not understand the limitation on the freedom of movement for diaspora Palestinians, as well as for Palestinians living within Palestine.

[00:11:29] It's not so easy and sometimes it's impossible to visit Palestine or to leave Palestine to go elsewhere.

[00:11:37] Now there are so many reasons for why that is and I won't be able to get into all of them. But primarily and predominantly it lies in the fact that Palestine is occupied by Israel and Israel controls everything and everyone that comes in and out of the land.

[00:11:56] First of all, Palestinians don't carry normal passwords like other nationalities because today on the global western world stage, Palestine is not recognized as a sovereign country.

[00:12:08] So they have travel documents that are not passwords and that come with limitations.

[00:12:14] Then if you happen to hold another citizenship, you have to apply to the Israeli embassy for a visa to visit Palestine and oftentimes if you are Palestinian or Palestinian descent, you can be denied.

[00:12:27] Not to mention, a lot of Palestinians don't want to pay Israel to be able to visit their very own lands.

[00:12:33] So all this to say as a diaspora Palestinian, Palestine is not so accessible to you.

[00:12:40] The diaspora Palestinian identity is this, is this appruting diaspora Palestinian identity? Is this law of diaspora Palestinian identity?

[00:12:51] Is the lack of access to your community. So your community is a small community. It's not that your community also is a chosen community.

[00:13:03] Your community is your family. Your community is the other Palestinians that your parents are friends with and their children, this is your community and you don't get to experience Palestine as a child at least.

[00:13:21] You don't get to experience Palestine beyond that. You're like, okay, this is kind of, this is my understanding of Palestine.

[00:13:27] My understanding of Palestine is my family, is my family friends and this is it. And you're all connected through this displacement and this appruting.

[00:13:39] And that's something that's quite difficult to realize at some point. I don't think as a child I really realize that but later on you realize how

[00:13:55] how much of a loss it is.

[00:14:01] At this point, I asked Fisal to tell me about the time where he realized that Palestine was a little different than other countries.

[00:14:09] The very first time that I thought and that I realized that Palestine had a special, special situation

[00:14:18] was I used to live in Canada, basically for primary school in part of kindergarten.

[00:14:29] And I must have been maybe six or seven so when you first learn geography and so in my history and geography textbook from school usually the first pages are all the flags.

[00:14:48] And so I went up to my mom, I was like, oh, this is Palestine right pointing to the flag of Israel. She's like, no, maybe this is not Palestine. This is Israel. I was like, oh, okay.

[00:14:59] I'm like, oh, but it's the same place as it is on the map. Like I understood that it was the same place that it was on the map. But I didn't really understand what was going on.

[00:15:12] I didn't understand the details of what was going on.

[00:15:18] Numerous are the times where people would ask me where I'm from and I would have to almost be apologetic in saying that I'm Palestinian because I know what they're thinking

[00:15:29] and I know what they, I know what the average person's reaction is going to be. I can anticipate that even though sometimes I'm agreeably surprised.

[00:15:41] But most of the time I know the bias and I know that it's going to make them uncomfortable and more than that, sometimes people feel the need to correct me and be like, oh, where's that?

[00:15:50] And I know like, oh, does it exist in my youth. I was a bit more understanding with that and I'd be like, oh, you know, Israel, Palestine.

[00:16:02] I always have to contextualize it within Israel and be like, you know, Israel, Palestine, they'd be like, oh, Israel, okay.

[00:16:09] But then I stopped doing that because like then as an adult, I think I did that as a child because or as a teenager because I didn't know better.

[00:16:17] And I didn't understand the violence that that was to for me to always have to to align myself with the occupier and always have to be like, oh, well, this is, you know, I am me in relation to Israel.

[00:16:36] Like this is, this is me with that other entity.

[00:16:42] And I decided to stop doing that at some point and I not even accept doing that.

[00:16:48] Like I know when people are pushing my buttons and I know when people are being malicious and their questions, I know I can make the difference between people who are truly like don't know who don't know which happens.

[00:17:02] Sometimes people just don't know and sometimes people are malicious.

[00:17:07] And I stopped trying to argue with people who, through their question, I try to reduce my experience and make it fit within their vision of who I am.

[00:17:23] I don't accept to do that anymore.

[00:17:26] It's been a while but I stopped accepting as an at some point I stopped accepting because I was like, no, this is not, this is not okay.

[00:17:34] This is not something that I want to be doing.

[00:17:37] But all of that is ingrained in the subtle othering that the West makes you feel, you know, like in a Western education system, I was always made to feel like

[00:17:52] we were inferior, we were not, you know, we didn't really have any democracy.

[00:17:59] They would tell us they're like, oh, you know, you're living in a totalitarian regime.

[00:18:03] Also this idea of religion being something quite backwards and putting forward this idea of this almost extreme secularism that becomes atheism

[00:18:19] and that becomes these like, but these are the values that you know you should be adopting in order to be a modern society in order to be accepting

[00:18:30] and in order to... But it's interesting because you see like when you look back I see the violence in that through teaching us how to be supposedly open-minded and accepting.

[00:18:46] But while othering us, you know, while being like, okay, you have to become different than what you are.

[00:18:54] You have to let go of all of these particularities and values that make you yourself like that make you whatever it is Palestinian Egyptian, whatever all of the other Arab nationalities that I had in class with me.

[00:19:11] So you need to let go of this Arab identity. You need to let go of this Arab identity even I don't want to say Muslim versus Christian because we have as many Christian Arabs as we have Muslim Arabs in class.

[00:19:25] And so you have to let go of your aridness in order for you to become this enlightened, you know, accepting a person which carries the values of human rights.

[00:19:41] I remember learning about human rights as well about the declaration of human rights.

[00:19:46] For reference, the first part of Article 1 in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reads as follows. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.

[00:19:59] I remember learning that as a nine-year-old in French school and being taught that and being taught that oh you're all equal however, subtly you're like oh no actually I'm only equal if I'm like you.

[00:20:11] It doesn't really I can't really be myself and equal. So there is this you also grow up in this contradiction of what does it take for me to be equal?

[00:20:22] What does it take for me to be accepted as your equal? What do you need for me to let go of for you to accept me as an equal?

[00:20:33] This right here what facet was able to articulate is something that is really difficult to put into words for many people myself included.

[00:20:43] I'm going to make an assumption here and say I believe many Westernized Arabs actually feel this way.

[00:20:50] What do you need me to let go of as an Arab to be accepted into your Western bubble?

[00:20:57] Just, you know, some food for thought.

[00:21:01] So now this takes us to our final guest, Nour who grew up in the West Bank in Palestine. Here's what she had to say about the Palestinian identity.

[00:21:13] So when I think about Palestinian identity, I feel like it's a very big thing and it's not like a monolith or an ontological state of being especially because the Palestinian experience is so varied whether you're from the West Bank or whether you're from Gaza or whether you live in 48 occupied territories or whether you're in the diaspora, in refugee camp etc. etc.

[00:21:38] So I don't really like to, you know, describe overall image. Also having grown up in Palestine sometimes I struggle to relate to the view of Palestine that I hear maybe echoed by those who grew up in the diaspora.

[00:21:55] Not too diminished from their experience because the them being in the diaspora is a big part of our story and our displacement.

[00:22:04] But I often feel it can be like a bit of an abstract or romanticized view that feels a bit disconnected from at least my lived material reality.

[00:22:15] But obviously that gap is a result of like everything the Palestinian people have been put through but all of that being said,

[00:22:25] the one thing that I can describe to all of us without feeling cliche is a sense of like dark humor and being a bit light in going about things which also ties into resilience but like I often feel when I speak about a specific anecdote or experience with a Palestinian friend in front of a non-Palestinian friend.

[00:22:49] Even if that person in front of diaspora or not but I might say like a story I had with a soldier stopping me at a checkpoint and it was like quite funny what happened.

[00:23:00] And to me I find that very funny and the non-Palestinians are like oh my god and you know it really hurts them to hear.

[00:23:08] So I think this kind of like dark humor I think it's a part of resilience and being able to go on because you can't go on unless you know you have some joy and you can't just fall into complete darkness.

[00:23:26] Humor is one of the greatest coping mechanisms and it's something that I have seen in different cultures particularly that deal with a lot of difficulties actually comedy and humor becomes pretty central in their lives.

[00:23:40] There's a quote I came across recently by Grownshew which is called pessimism of the intellect and optimism of the will which I think is the Palestinian experience.

[00:23:52] We are intellectually pessimistic we've seen what history has done we.

[00:23:57] I've seen what these international institutions and frameworks have done to us but we are still optimistic in the will and we still continue.

[00:24:09] So I don't know this humor this optimism this I don't always want to say joy but this you know persistence persistence of living I think is a big.

[00:24:21] I think in the past and identity that I can like recognize and describe without feeling like I'm falling into anything you know.

[00:24:30] The next question I asked Zina Faisal and Nur is what elements of their Palestinian culture they wanted to pass down to the next generation of Palestinians or to their children should they choose to have them.

[00:24:48] And first up we have Zina.

[00:24:53] Yeah I think about that a lot and I think it's it's a hard one to answer because I think during this time I think often about what will be left of Palestine when I have kids.

[00:25:16] And I think there's like a deep seated fear that I haven't yet fully digested of you know what's happening now could go either way but there's a very real possibility that more of Palestine and with it people land culture names streets are.

[00:25:46] Going to be buried and so I always wonder if I'm going to speak to them about this like mystical place just like from feels like from a very long time ago and it's a reality i've been like really reckoning with.

[00:26:06] And so I guess a big part of me hopes and wishes and.

[00:26:14] Praise to whoever that actual Palestine is there for them to.

[00:26:22] Go and see despite it being very different than the one my parents lived in and my grandparents and so on but there's.

[00:26:31] An energy and a feeling and a presence to the land and the people that still makes you feel right at home and so I hope it's still there to like really have them experience how good it feels to come home.

[00:26:50] But yeah I digress but really that's one aspect of it is just that like intention to take them there as often as possible should it hopefully be there and in much better situation that it is now.

[00:27:06] But I think more than that i'm going to show up in the Palestine that I learned how to show up in and the values that it instilled in me that.

[00:27:17] I learned over the years to discern which perhaps are ones I want to keep and which are not mine to keep and in showing up that way i hope that is passed on to them but really it's their choice and their way of how they now they choose to engage but.

[00:27:38] But I definitely will infuse the home with our food and our flavors and our dishes and books and stories and not just historical books to know of what happens but really lots of like poetry and.

[00:28:03] Stories that I read when I was a child that I like film the best stories that have ever read and.

[00:28:10] Just an knowledge of what Palestinian culture like really entails and I think a lot of the values that for me stem from being Palestinian because that's how I learned them and namely just like kindness love and a lot of respect and reprints for.

[00:28:30] Family next up you'll hear from face so there's the obvious thing that I want to pass down which is the culture you know the culture the food the language all of the things that.

[00:28:46] That constitutes being Palestinian on a daily on a daily basis but I think that's something that's quite important and I think that most Palestinians either have it or repress it i mean that's my personal opinion and no actually i'm not going to talk about most of us i'm going to talk about my experience so.

[00:29:08] So this is something that I have and that I have to manage which is anger.

[00:29:19] And I think that anger plays a big role in in my Palestinian identity where there is this at some point there is this realization of the loss that we have experience.

[00:29:38] This realization of the inaccessibility to our home there is this realization of our status as refugees there is this realization of our inability legally to be able to even visit our homes.

[00:30:00] It's really problematic to have grown up without access to to my home and that.

[00:30:12] That creates anger that creates that creates a sense of insecurity that creates a sense of being confronted to injustice.

[00:30:24] And that is something that for me I have had to manage.

[00:30:34] I think it's important to be angry I think it's important and not not necessarily anger i mean i think you know like i say anger i'm not going to be like angry but feeling you know like really feeling what's going on really feeling what happened to us.

[00:30:50] So this is what i'm saying when i'm talking about anger it's this passion it's this connection to your identity that's that's that really comes from from from the root from the gut from from this connection to emotion like the emotional side of identity which in my family at least I certain extent was disconnected from because.

[00:31:17] Because i know that my family have to and i'm sure many other persons family just had to have to carry on and had to move on and have to just make a living and learn and you know work and move countries again to find work because you know.

[00:31:35] The situations where there were you know refugees and Lebanon and you know Syria Egypt all these different places i mean.

[00:31:47] I don't know it's complicated so yes feeling at least if not anger i what i want to offer the next generation if i can is this embodied emotional connection.

[00:32:05] And now let's listen to Nour as she takes this question in a slightly different direction.

[00:32:15] I was thinking about it on more of an abstract level and i was thinking what i would do with something that's inherently Palestinian to me but i would want to pass down to my children is.

[00:32:26] An inherent political understanding and consciousness as well as a distrust of like institutional international frameworks that i've clearly not served us.

[00:32:41] I mean i also think these things maybe Arabs share slightly as a whole but i think being Palestinian you're inherently you have a lot of political knowledge from your existence and i really see that when i'm faced with other people particularly more western people.

[00:32:56] I also think being Palestinian you know you and is fake you know all of these things are real and they don't serve to protect anyone and i found that quite useful in navigating my life in that i'm not expecting anything from these systems.

[00:33:11] And even though they're neglect of us and they're abandoning us obviously still hurts and comes as a slight shock even though we're aware of it.

[00:33:22] Yeah i am still shocked by it i am still a bit hurt by it but i was never expecting anything in the first place and that way i invest myself in people and in real things and i'm not awaiting you know like a quote unquote democratically elected western president to do anything for me you know i don't have these expectations.

[00:33:45] I know it's in my hands and in the people's hands so i would want to pass that down.

[00:33:51] At this point i asked Nour where she finds her fate.

[00:33:55] Um in Palestinian people well not just in Palestinian people but in actual people and in grassroots movements i feel more when i go to the protests in the UK that have a million people and they're not Palestinian a lot of them that means so much more to me than like a UN statement or a lot of people.

[00:34:15] Like my call apparently calling for a ceasefire.

[00:34:19] Um yeah everything comes from the people and the street not from anywhere else.

[00:34:32] This brings us to the last question in part one where i was curious to understand the role of religion in the question of Palestine through our guests lived experience and understanding.

[00:34:43] Very often in western media the Palestine Israel question is framed as a religious war between Muslims and Jews but i wanted to hear directly from Palestinians if that was part of their understanding or if this was like another narrative that is pushed by the media but not really anchored in reality.

[00:35:05] So first up we have Zina.

[00:35:07] I'll start off by saying how it's a farthest from a religious war and it's really not about that.

[00:35:17] And i think from a personal standpoint i speak to that not from you know i don't speak to that more from an intellectual standpoint and the understanding of

[00:35:28] you know Zionism and like how it's conflated with Judaism for colonial purposes and all of these different things but also the understanding from a personal perspective from people around from the Palestinian communities that i'm always in is how much being Palestinian supersedes any religious affiliation or lack thereof that you have.

[00:35:55] There's being Palestinian as sort of a first tier and then perhaps you branch into more religious or faith based affiliations that have nothing to do with Palestine per se but everything to do with that choice of religion right or what you were born into.

[00:36:16] But i never saw at least in my household the intersection between religion and Palestine Palestine was yeah the value system and an offensive identity in the food and the joy and the struggle for Palestinian liberation and all of that i never saw it in a religious perspective but I think that's really the way it is.

[00:36:46] The goal is one of liberation and decolonization not of religious hajjomini right and so it's none of the narrative is one that carries religion as the ultimate goal but rather the liberation of Palestinians from decades of oppression.

[00:37:13] As that goal and then i think you know it's also true because when you speak to our parents and and their parents and my grandparents and all of that there's many stories of them living side by side with Christians and Jews and you know the Palestinian.

[00:37:41] And I was in this state and culture and and it's rich with so with so many different sects and so many different religions it's a very multicultural city that's been around for decades and has been ruled and colonized by different people and as a result was infused with so many different people from all walks of life.

[00:38:08] And that's what makes it so colorful so rich and so yeah diverse.

[00:38:16] Okay, so up next we have Fisal and his understanding in the role of religion played in the question of Palestine.

[00:38:23] Zero nothing not nothing no framing of religion whatsoever when it comes to Palestine nothing I can really confidently tell you that religion was never a man.

[00:38:38] And when it comes to Palestine religion played no role in my understanding of Palestine growing up.

[00:38:49] This is nothing it was never mentioned and if anything when it when we were talking about Palestine in how my grandparents experience Palestine they always talked about this pluralistic society where my grandmother is from.

[00:39:08] Nazareth which has a very big Christian community so they talked you know like this was very normal it wasn't something that was unusual I spoke to my cousin recently who was telling me that our grandmother their neighbors and high for our Jewish like this was it was never it's never been about religion and never became about religion like in my family religion was never never mentioned as a thing.

[00:39:38] It was never mentioned so like this is my answer like my straight up answer is that religion played absolutely no part in my relationship to Palestine.

[00:39:50] Okay, so I understood Palestine as a place of religion with you know the Muslim holy sites with the dominant rock with a lot of some us with the Christian holy sites of.

[00:40:01] Of course these are the main ones of the church of the Holy Sepulcher of the church of nativity and.

[00:40:12] Of the Jewish railing wall so I understood the importance of religion in Palestine but I didn't it it wasn't religion wasn't a factor in the Palestinian struggle.

[00:40:28] So at this point both Zina and Faisal mentioned their elders and their grandparents speak of a time where Palestine was a more pluralistic society where Muslims Jews and Christians lived side by side.

[00:40:43] And I just want to add something here from my own you know not so much direct experience but anecdotes that have been told time and time again for my Egyptian family members of growing up in a time when you know members of these three Abrahamic religions were.

[00:40:58] They were neighbors or friends and just coexisted relatively peacefully.

[00:41:05] I've spoken to so many different people from North Africa and the Levant region and the stories go across the board prior to the 1950s.

[00:41:14] So now let's hear from our last guest who actually grew up in Palestine here's what it would have to say and you might hear her refer to Palestine as Palestine yes with an F that's actually how you pronounce Palestine in Arabic.

[00:41:28] Palestine is called Palestine.

[00:41:33] In terms of the world religion plays in the question of Palestine I mean I know yeah that the West like to frame it is like a religious war and that also serves like distance people from it because they feel it's some like ancient thing that they can really relate to.

[00:41:49] I think it's all follow seen as the center of like every imperialist Western military objective there is and that is eerogies and if Palestinians were Buddhist or they were Hindu it wouldn't make a difference.

[00:42:04] I think it's yeah about imperialism and colonization its core as well as capitalism thinking about how Israel is the center of all these tech and weapons innovations and their startup culture and tech washington if you if you want to call it.

[00:42:23] That being said I don't like fully separating religion from the Palestinian question because that is a big part of the lived Palestinian experience everyone that is dying in Gaza is speaking to God they're looking at it through the framework of martyrdom and fighting for freedom and all of that so I think it is an extricable from our struggle and we shouldn't be forced.

[00:42:53] I think it's a distance from it so I do think we reserve the right to have religion be a part of our struggle and I resent that that's labeled like terrorism or extremism because it is just part of the experience and it is an injustice to the cause to fully separate it.

[00:43:17] I'm not sharing the ones but like I said at its core this is a struggle against colonialism and imperialism as Israel is literally like the western outposts in the Middle East in the very strategic location that's what all of this is about.

[00:43:35] But religion is a bit inextricable from our struggle not from all parts of it there have been obviously secular movements in Palestine like the pflp and stuff like that and those movements today that are secular but you know I think whichever way Palestinian sides to relate to their identity it's not anyone's place to tell them not to not to do that.

[00:43:59] This brings us to the end of part one where we explored what it means to be Palestinian but earlier on there was a certain point that I said we'd get back to and that is when Faisal experienced Palestine for the first time at the age of 25.

[00:44:16] He lived there for a few months and here's what he shared about that time in his life.

[00:44:22] I mean first of all it was the most incredible experience of my life. It was the very first time that I understood where I was from.

[00:44:31] It was the very first time that I could say I come from here and not only that I could say that I come from here but also receive the love and the acceptance of Palestinians in Palestine and encouraging me to explore and to stay and to talk and to meet with them.

[00:44:51] People and to go places and to see things and it was just the most most most incredible experience ever.

[00:45:00] It was an experience that was extremely grounding, it was an experience that was very also clarifying and to understanding my Palestinianness as something that exists today and that exists there.

[00:45:21] And also on a more concrete level like going to the cities where my families used to live and seeing sites, for example or seeing a shop with my mom's family name or telling someone, oh I'm my grandmothers from this family they're like, oh yeah of course this is where they're from.

[00:45:40] And for this thing that I felt was like my personal family history to suddenly be in a context where it was common knowledge was actually quite incredible.

[00:45:52] And in addition to that, for example going to high-fat to the north and meeting people my age who had my mother's accent, hearing expressions and words

[00:46:07] and things that I thought were very particular to my family and to my mother suddenly be contextualized as something that comes from that particular region of Palestine was incredible, was completely insane for me.

[00:46:28] And that was extremely grounding, that was extremely grounding and magical to understand that Palestinian identity transcends time and space.

[00:46:41] Like going to eat at friends places where their mom had cooked at Haifa and in Jerusalem and for the food to taste exactly like my mom's food was also incredible.

[00:46:56] Like to taste like my mom's food, to look like my mom's food it was just insane. I'm like this is where I'm from undeniably, undeniably this is where I'm from the language, the food, the way people look like you look like the other looking at people in the street that's not saying that we're all clones but if you look at some of the street like yeah that makes sense, you know?

[00:47:23] That really makes sense, it makes sense that I'm from here.

[00:47:27] Like this, these subtle markers of culture are things as a diaspora Palestinian you're disconnected from and this is something that's very, very sad to be disconnected from that.

[00:47:42] And to not have had that really kind of experience that you know the fool guy, you know, alpha world, the person that makes the hummus, the little person that sells the spices and the author, the old ladies in Jerusalem that are selling what they foraged which is also again this like real connection to the land.

[00:48:07] Like growing up so disconnected from your culture and from these really basic experiences is the violence as well is the violence of the diaspora not having access to these basic experiences that are so ingrained in the culture.

[00:48:28] And also beyond that on a very kind of emotional level it's the feeling in my body that you just feel grounded.

[00:48:40] It felt like I was held by the earth and the earth was hugging me, it was the most incredible experience of my life.

[00:48:48] And there is nothing, there is nothing that I will live. There is nowhere in the world that I can go that will give me that experience.

[00:48:58] We'll be back next week with part two of the on Palestine series this time with the Palestinian struggle for liberation.

[00:49:25] Again, these conversations are hard but they're important ones to hold. There are many resources shared in the show notes that Zina, Faisal and Nour shared with me ranging from Palestinian artists, movies, books to articles about the ongoing genocide in Gaza.

[00:49:47] Please read, share and learn.

[00:49:52] A special thanks to Ban Berkawi, Ariana Martinez and Melik El Masiri for their guidance and support in the series.

[00:50:01] And of course a special thanks to our guests Zina, Faisal and Nour for being so open and sharing their stories and experiences of Palestine.