is home a person, a place, or a feeling? — with Mona

[00:00:00] This is a place where we talk about belonging. Welcome to the Inbetweenish

[00:00:07] I'm Beatriz Nour, your host, raised in three cultures, two religions and four languages

[00:00:14] Trust me, I get the chaos. On the show I chat with those who have lived that Inbetweenish

[00:00:20] life, of a hear and of a there, building bridges across cultures, and of course, the

[00:00:26] world quest to finding hope. Today I'm talking to Mona Hassan and she's joining

[00:00:34] from Vienna, Austria. She carries an interesting multicultural mix that I'll let her

[00:00:40] reveal in a little bit, but to fight to say it's really not your commoneric of cultures.

[00:00:45] Mona wears many hats, she started her career working in sales in the corporate world

[00:00:50] before shifting into becoming an entrepreneur and co-founder of the embodied coaching institute.

[00:00:56] She's also a passionate energy worker and recently as of September she launched her

[00:01:02] very own podcast titled What The Fuck Is Normal I Want Magic.

[00:01:07] And I notice they I love the name and how she strives to overcome perfectionism through

[00:01:13] her unfiltered soul talk. Things to her work, social media, and podcasts can be found in

[00:01:19] the show notes below and I encourage you to go check it out. And now in her own words let's

[00:01:24] turn the mic to Mona and ask her. What is your dish?

[00:01:30] So I grew up in Vienna in Austria, so I was born and raised in Vienna. And my mother is from

[00:01:39] South Korea and my father is from Egypt. So the languages that I grew up with are to be honest

[00:01:46] mainly German and Korean because I mainly grew up with my mother but obviously I have also

[00:01:54] been in touch with my dad so Arabic was definitely also a language. I wasn't touch with

[00:02:00] my childhood especially and but I would say German and Korean are the main languages. In regards

[00:02:06] to religions I was raised so my mother is Catholic, my father is Muslim but my mother is practicing

[00:02:15] but my father is not. And personally I'm Catholic so I was also again here more in touch with

[00:02:24] the Catholic religion. That is the first mix I come across that is South Korean

[00:02:33] Egyptian Austrian, it's quite an interesting thing. Did you grow up with other people of a

[00:02:46] brothers? I mean by logically we have brothers. I really see them as my food brothers and they see

[00:02:55] me as as as as their food sister but yeah but by logically I grew up with two half brothers,

[00:03:01] their half Korean and half Austrian so I don't have any siblings with same kind of mix.

[00:03:08] I've never met anyone that I'm sure they are some that exist especially nowadays because

[00:03:18] yeah Korea is a bit more let's say known then you know 35 years ago and I've seen even like

[00:03:27] seen even their TV series documentaries where Egyptians actually flew to Korea and

[00:03:35] yeah and they're kind of filming them how they get along there with the Korean culture so you know

[00:03:41] they're more and more due to their world we live in now where it's so easy to travel

[00:03:46] I'm sure nowadays there are a few more of my kind of mixes but let's say it's from my generation

[00:03:53] I don't know anyone I haven't met anyone yet. That's so interesting that it was a TV show

[00:03:59] movie I don't know that you were referencing. It's a team issue so you know in South Korea they

[00:04:05] love this kind of TV shows and they love especially to accompany four owners that are discovering

[00:04:14] South Korea and because they really they're really interested in understanding how people from other

[00:04:20] cultures perceive the Korean culture how they get along with the food and the people and and the art

[00:04:27] and everything so there a lot of this kind of entertainment shows where you can see people from

[00:04:34] all over the world visiting or even living in Korea for a while and how they get along.

[00:04:39] How interesting maybe for you doesn't feel that way but for me like all of the past couple of years

[00:04:44] I've seen a lot of Korean cinema I guess and I feel like for someone who's very disconnected from that

[00:04:52] feel like it's having a moment in pop culture sort of you know because it's it's very foreign

[00:04:58] culture to me but like we kind of established you don't meet Korean Egyptians every day so I have

[00:05:04] to ask like how did your parents meet? There's no crazy story I can tell it's basically my mother

[00:05:13] she came to Austria in her early twenties as a nurse and my father came to Austria also in

[00:05:21] these twenties to study and they had common friends that introduced them to each other so I believe

[00:05:29] they met at some kind of you know partying your dinner or gathering so they have that common friends

[00:05:35] did your parents face any challenges or complications from either of their families for choosing to be

[00:05:42] together. A very good question I've actually never asked that I believe because they both

[00:05:53] moved to a foreign country so you know they're both not from Austria so my mom moved

[00:05:59] from South Korea to Austria and my dad moved from Egypt to Austria. Their families were already

[00:06:04] kind of almost expecting maybe that they could potentially meet someone and end up with

[00:06:12] someone not from not from their same culture but to be honest I've never asked I mean my mom

[00:06:18] she was married before and so she was married as I said like to to an Austrian with who she got

[00:06:28] the two kids my two brothers so I guess especially on my mother's side they were kind of used to her

[00:06:35] being with a Korean and on my father's side to be honest I have no clue but for sure especially

[00:06:43] back then it was already a huge deal to go abroad you know to go on a plane and to fly somewhere

[00:06:51] else and to live in a new country to start a new life in a completely new country so that step

[00:06:56] was already quite a big deal back then plus then meeting someone from such a different culture

[00:07:03] I truly believe I have never asked but I truly believe that my Egyptian family

[00:07:08] when they heard that my dad met a Korean woman I believe they were even asking where is Korea because

[00:07:15] back then Korea was just not known at all so yeah so I guess but it's a good point I should ask that

[00:07:25] I have never explored that I should ask my parents or their families actually perceived that

[00:07:30] yeah I'd be curious to know because you kind of you know like your three cultures are very

[00:07:36] very different cultures it's so funny because when you were mentioning like the languages that

[00:07:41] you were exposed to they don't have anything in common they don't even have the same alphabet

[00:07:45] they don't even write from the same direction you know like it's just so funny because they're

[00:07:50] so different and I want to ask as someone who grew up amongst these different cultures did you notice

[00:07:56] any similarities or differences between these cultures that kind of took you by surprise?

[00:08:03] So obviously the first impression that you get is this just three completely different worlds

[00:08:09] clashing but I have to say that there are surprisingly many similarities especially I would say

[00:08:16] between the Korean and the Egyptian culture so an example is their values if you look at for

[00:08:24] example the Korean culture one of the biggest values is family and also how you treat each other

[00:08:33] within the family it's quite hierarchical in a way I would say there's a lot of respect also

[00:08:41] especially towards elderly people I would say that same same Egypt let's let's say compared to

[00:08:47] the European culture the values are between South Korean Egypt in my opinion are more aligned

[00:08:55] than the values between South Korean Austria or Egypt in Austria so I would say from these three

[00:09:02] cultures Austria is the most for aim or that the culture that is maybe least aligned with any of these

[00:09:09] I think that's I would say I have these the values that both of them gave me are actually pretty

[00:09:16] aligned even though they come from different cultures or countries in this case and then it was

[00:09:23] more of a struggle let's say being raised with these values in a country like Austria which is

[00:09:29] you know central Europe yeah the first impression is very very different second impression is

[00:09:35] their iC similarities specifically between South Korean Egypt and it's actually Austria that

[00:09:41] I feel that is least aligned with any of the others that's almost not what you would expect

[00:09:47] you know but it's interesting because Austria is the odd one out in this case and interesting

[00:09:53] because that's the one you were raised in right so I think you reveal the nut that you grew

[00:09:59] around your mother more a little bit more than your father growing up in Europe you know I guess

[00:10:05] not looking like your average European citizen when did you first realize that you were different

[00:10:13] do you remember how old you were and was it something someone said or just a realization you

[00:10:19] came to how did this unfold for you I believe I realized pretty early but memory wise

[00:10:30] that I can really give you an example when I was around four or five years old because my

[00:10:39] very very very best friend she is pure Austrian you know like she's this very

[00:10:47] blonde now women but back then girl obviously I always went with her to the countryside in Austria

[00:10:56] to visit her grandparents yeah so they her grandparents also became kind of my my Austrian

[00:11:04] grandparents so we spend really a lot of time together oh that's lovely yes it was very very

[00:11:10] lovely and very important for me as a child and so we would spend the summers there but also

[00:11:16] the winters and at least part of the winters and one of the things that we didn't winters was

[00:11:23] skiing so I learned how to ski and obviously I was the only like completely opposite of

[00:11:32] every European you know I'm I've darkest in like I have my eyes are kind of Asian but not really Asian

[00:11:40] so it's very difficult for people to tell when from um so I'm I'm really not not even half European

[00:11:48] so and then I was in that skiing team with this other kids that were all very Austrian

[00:11:55] and the funny thing is that there was a race there was a skiing race and I won

[00:12:04] I won that race which was really amazing yeah it's one of my proudest moments I think in my life

[00:12:11] so I made yeah yeah I just won and I remember at the celebration when they called my name

[00:12:21] I was standing up there and then I just remember I heard I was really proud and I just remember

[00:12:27] someone from the crowd said something are funny the Asian has won something like it's and it

[00:12:36] was not meant at all in a bad way and I also didn't take it in a bad way but it was one of the

[00:12:40] moments where we realized yeah I know that I'm really for a kid here and somehow I managed to

[00:12:50] beat all these other Austrian kids here and you know especially skiing which is such an Austrian

[00:12:55] sport also so that was definitely a moment where we realized yeah I'm different and I failed very

[00:13:01] different I felt proud but at the same time I felt like yeah I'm that kid hmm well I mean I think

[00:13:08] these moments are such foundational moments for us as kids you know I think it's a refreshing

[00:13:13] actually that you didn't take it offensively because I think I don't know maybe it's part of like

[00:13:18] the era that we're in now but I feel like everyone today is so easily triggered and so easily

[00:13:22] offended you know yeah no definitely it's I would say I was always aware that I was different

[00:13:31] but I never took it in a bad way at least not as a child when I became older so in my teenager

[00:13:39] time there were definitely moments where I wish I you know was more Austrian I wish I was taller

[00:13:46] I wish I was blonde with blue eyes so in my teenager time I would say I did face

[00:13:55] kind of the difference as being something bad but especially as a child let's say until I was 10

[00:14:04] 11 I was aware but in a way it made me feel more special rather than odd or something so I

[00:14:15] didn't associate anything bad with being different I think that goes down to parenting honestly

[00:14:21] yeah I think I'm personally of the opinion that differences are a beautiful thing to be celebrated

[00:14:26] rather than to be feared so I think to me that really goes down to your core environment and your

[00:14:34] new clear family at that point and I think as teenagers we all have this desire to fit in

[00:14:39] to the crowd and be a part of the whole and not necessarily stand out yes definitely yeah as you

[00:14:48] older it's more about going out there and finding your place and yeah belonging it's more about

[00:14:55] belonging outside your family as well my family especially as I grew up with two all the brothers

[00:15:01] and they were so loving they yeah they gave me so much love of course also my parents but I think

[00:15:09] my brother's really played a very important role in me feeling safe and me feeling

[00:15:16] I'm just so loved and special that I didn't care to be different and maybe because I also

[00:15:23] grew up with two brothers and not with sisters and they were also way older you're 10 and 8 years

[00:15:28] apart but because probably they they approached that difference in such a loving way I guess me being

[00:15:35] different I associated as a child as a kid already as something beautiful and not as something bad

[00:15:44] I think there's something to you know I think having sisters is a bit different

[00:15:50] I think having like siblings of a different gender there's protectiveness and the want to

[00:15:55] the desire to kind of make the younger sibling feel quite safe yeah I think that's really

[00:16:01] beautiful I love what you said about your brothers yeah I'm very curious to know if you experience

[00:16:08] any culture shock visiting South Korea or Egypt maybe we could start with South Korea

[00:16:16] yeah so I have more I've been to South Korea way more often and spend more time as

[00:16:23] a period in Egypt yeah so my mom she already took us to South Korea when her kids

[00:16:29] I don't have a lot of memories as a kid because I was still quite young then I didn't go there

[00:16:34] for quite a while during my yeah during my teenage time again and then the interest in South Korea

[00:16:42] grew so much that I then actually when I went to university I started studying Korean

[00:16:49] at the university so I really yeah I really wanted to discover my roots and I

[00:16:57] I wanted to start with South Korea simply because I felt more connected to to that culture

[00:17:01] and throughout these studies I then also planned first summer there and then afterwards

[00:17:10] an exchange semester so I spent half a year there when I was 24 I absolutely loved it I just

[00:17:18] I loved South Korea so much I've never and it's interesting because I've never really really had

[00:17:25] a culture shock there not as much as the one I had in Egypt so with South Korea there's always

[00:17:31] whenever I am there I just feel such a feeling longing not necessarily towards the society but

[00:17:38] the country itself like sold the city even though it's completely different now than it was you know

[00:17:45] 40 years ago this country just amazed me it's so modern at the same time there is so much

[00:17:51] culture there's so much ancient wisdom also listening to to Korea and always kind of puts me into a

[00:17:57] mood of being home and the food I love to Korean food so every time in Korea it always it always

[00:18:05] feels like paradise especially when I spent this half a year there I didn't really integrate

[00:18:11] so much into the society so I think my culture shock because I spent there were quite a few

[00:18:15] exchange students so we were like a group of I don't know more than 50 exchange students from all

[00:18:21] over the world so I was living a little bit in my expert bubble for inner bubble so I was hanging

[00:18:28] around mainly with this is for instance students which was lots of fun as you can imagine but I

[00:18:35] yeah but I actually didn't spend so much time with the locals but I do remember okay maybe if there's

[00:18:40] one way how I see a culture shock of South Korea is when it comes to friendships like there's this

[00:18:46] huge social pressure in South Korea if you know how you look on the outside you know what's your

[00:18:53] image what's your rank there's this huge hierarchical thinking and I've realized that it's obviously

[00:19:01] visible in friendships it's visible in all levels of relationships that you have with others and

[00:19:07] I always felt like these friendships that I had there was always this hierarchical thinking so

[00:19:13] you in South Korea you also always ask your age when you meet someone you ask what your name what

[00:19:17] your age so it's like a normal question to ask yes it's a total normal actually it's almost

[00:19:24] a compulsory question because depending on the age you then rank yourself because in Korea there's

[00:19:30] a Korean language you say when someone is older you actually don't call them by their name but

[00:19:39] there's a specific expression that you then use to call them like uncle or aunty but you have

[00:19:46] that also on a friendship on a friendship level interesting so for example if I meet yeah if I

[00:19:52] meet a girl a woman that is older than me then I don't call her by her name I call her on me

[00:20:00] then she's she's forever my only and this is like you know based on if you're a few years older

[00:20:05] or a few months or a few days like how specific it doesn't matter if you're older you're older

[00:20:12] even if it's just a second or a month oh yeah and then depending on that of course it's

[00:20:19] the conversations are just different I mean already that kind of system makes you feel like you're not

[00:20:27] I too I right it's not the same level yeah they still have like loving relationships and friendships

[00:20:34] and all of this but this kind of hierarchy of thinking is always there so I did feel with

[00:20:39] the friendships that I that I started building there yeah they were beautiful but there was always

[00:20:45] still this mask that people are wearing and not really showing emotions and not really going deep

[00:20:53] everywhere that you say make sure it's aligned and it's a lot about not using your face in

[00:21:00] public even in private so it's it's a lot about yeah kind of keeping that mask on even in

[00:21:07] very deep friendships where you aware of this like before you went there was it something like

[00:21:13] your your mom or maybe your brothers had kind of like mentioned to you that this is the

[00:21:22] younger you know or did it kind of like hit you when you went back as an adult was like oh this is

[00:21:28] a very different system of friendship and hierarchy totally I knew that from the beginning

[00:21:34] like this is also how my mom raised us we knew that because it started already here in Australia

[00:21:39] when we met you know friends of of hers and their kids we we always knew how to you know how to

[00:21:47] call them how to behave we observed of course a lot also how how my mom spoke to others right into

[00:21:53] her friends so we you know I was totally aware but still of course then experiencing it at first

[00:21:59] hand in a country itself is again a different story yeah that's so interesting I I didn't know about

[00:22:05] the system um I mean I'm aware the different cultures have like this kind of hierarchy but I think

[00:22:11] it's not quite as maybe obvious because asking your age and down to like you know dates like

[00:22:19] who's older than the other I think that's so interesting to me and then like I have all these

[00:22:24] questions like oh whatever you're born the same day you know what are you calling yeah is it like

[00:22:33] cross different genders or is it just with women are like this and with men are like this like

[00:22:38] it's a cross all it's a cross oh yes mm yeah and I wanted to ask if you felt accepted in

[00:22:45] Korea did you feel like you were perceived or labeled I don't know as a foreigner since you grew up in

[00:22:51] Austria and your father's Egyptian Koreans have a very specific way how they look at half Koreans

[00:22:58] so for for Koreans half Koreans are kind of the better Koreans they're kind of wow because usually

[00:23:06] like you know when they're mixed with another race especially if it's a European race and

[00:23:13] they think these people are always more beautiful they're more intelligent you know they're kind

[00:23:18] of better at everything then then the real pure Koreans let's say but at the same time because

[00:23:26] they lift them up in a way again we have here the issue of not being on eye level and not being

[00:23:33] equal they they will always feel like not 100% you know Korean Korean because society just doesn't

[00:23:42] see them as just 100% Koreans not in a bad way as I said usually in a more of a you know way of

[00:23:50] admiration but still at the same time that means that you are never if you never really 100% belong to

[00:23:57] that same the majority of the population yeah it's funny you mentioned that because I think a

[00:24:04] lot of cultures see mixes differently you know and a just so happens that you know South Korea

[00:24:13] and Egypt both see mixes positively especially when it's like you said with the European

[00:24:20] mix I think it is kind of like a residue of having been very influenced by colonialism

[00:24:27] and colonialist like beauty biases are standards but what was experiencing Egyptian culture like

[00:24:36] for you being the only one of your siblings that has this culture yes so in Egypt I've actually

[00:24:43] just been once in my life and that was when I was around 14 so when I was a child my dad

[00:24:53] lived in Vienna so I saw him on a regular basis every two weeks on a weekends then when I became

[00:24:59] older I don't remember the exact age but when I was a teenager he moved back to Egypt for a while

[00:25:06] so there was quite a few years where I didn't see him on a regular basis and that's also one of

[00:25:12] reasons why then he wanted me to come to visit him in Egypt when I was 14 so I flew from Vienna to Cairo

[00:25:19] so it was the first time with 14 that I met first of all that I saw him after many years

[00:25:25] secondly that I met my entire family which is quite big on both sides actually so on both sides

[00:25:31] I have like my father has five siblings my mom has five siblings and they all live still in Egypt

[00:25:38] or in Korea so 14 it was the first time that I actually met my entire Egyptian family within two

[00:25:46] weeks and then of course everyone wanted to see me everyone wanted to get to know me everyone wanted

[00:25:51] to offer me the best food and take me here and take me there it was let's say it started already

[00:25:57] in a very exciting hectic way and then on top came that I didn't go to Egypt because I was interested

[00:26:06] in a country so much it's not because in general I wasn't interested but you know I was 14

[00:26:11] 14 I was interested in spending time with my friends it was not the age where I was really interested

[00:26:16] in going abroad and seeing other countries so I mainly went there to see my dad and to meet my

[00:26:21] family but not so much to really explore the country and then I came there and I didn't really know

[00:26:27] what to expect and I was so shocked I remember one of my biggest culture shocks there was that I was

[00:26:33] wearing this kind of tank tops so with like a shirt that is not covering your shoulders my dad

[00:26:39] basically said you cannot wear this here I mean you can but you have to put something over it

[00:26:45] and I was like do you mean I cannot wear that tear it's hot I this is what I wear in the

[00:26:52] Austria all the time he said yeah but he had stiffened your women or you're on a way of becoming a woman

[00:26:58] and yeah you can show your shoulders like here in public he said at home it's fine with me but

[00:27:05] not you know in public and that was one of the things where I felt so offended I felt like I just didn't

[00:27:13] understand I didn't get it and yeah it's one of the things that made me realize okay the culture is

[00:27:20] this very different you have to watch out what you wear on a public street it felt like a restriction

[00:27:27] of my off my freedom yeah I hear you I think especially like if you were you know not used to

[00:27:35] being told this or being reminded of this you know especially when you're balancing like the

[00:27:40] different cultures and one is a bit more maybe liberal and the other is a bit more traditional yes

[00:27:46] but what was it like meeting your whole Egyptian side of the family kind of like at once tell me

[00:27:53] about that experience for you yeah so that part was beautiful that was very magical

[00:28:00] because I received so much love again from them I received so much hospitality I wasn't

[00:28:08] amazed but I was a hospitality like one day we went to this auntie and all of them they were preparing

[00:28:17] so much food and they were so happy to see me and they all treated me as if they knew me for ages

[00:28:22] and so much warmth and love and yeah that's what I really love about the Egyptian culture and

[00:28:28] that probably a huge difference to the Korean culture which is a bit more reserved the way how

[00:28:32] they express themselves you know like body contact all these kind of things it's very very restricted

[00:28:37] and in Egypt I felt like you know they were having me and they were kissing me and it was very

[00:28:42] very touching very beautiful to meet all of them and especially to see how they welcomed me into

[00:28:48] family one of the key moments that I had with the Egyptian culture where I felt oh wow I'm also

[00:28:56] very and I'll actually also have a Egyptian was when I still remember I was with my one of my cousins

[00:29:03] and her mother and they were playing music and they were playing this kind of you know obviously

[00:29:09] Egyptian songs and they started dancing and they were so outgoing and there was so much

[00:29:18] joy and so much freedom and how they this women expressed themselves you know they were doing

[00:29:24] belly dance and and I was so amazed I can see remember I was sitting there and I was connected

[00:29:30] so much through the music I connected so much through the dance so much to just you know letting

[00:29:35] yourself go and express yourself with your whole body this is something very different from the

[00:29:41] re-enculture again and that was the moment like this moment of belly dance where I just sat there

[00:29:51] and observed where I felt like oh yeah I've got that sight in me too because I lost dancing

[00:29:56] yeah that's a really beautiful memory did you learn how to belly dance on that trip

[00:30:03] no I didn't I was not enough time and it's been on my mind actually forever to learn it

[00:30:11] my way of dance is more kind of a free I love I love free dancing I just love to move my body the

[00:30:19] way how I feel to move it I don't really feel like I'm going to a course I've tried a few dancing

[00:30:26] courses in my life it's yeah as soon as they started with you know you have to

[00:30:32] this you remember this step and this step and this how you do it I lost my interest so for me it's

[00:30:37] just about I think the rhythm the rhythm the kind of music the joy that is in the music and

[00:30:43] you know that expression of your body and not so much about learning specific type of dance

[00:30:48] yeah yeah I'm the same as you I don't do all with instructions and I prefer the

[00:30:54] free flowing and the moving to the rhythm you know also belly dancing is really hard yes it is

[00:31:02] it is looks way easier than it is right yeah absolutely um I want to go back to I think I

[00:31:13] didn't ask you this question so what language did you actually grow up speaking at home when you

[00:31:18] were at home with your core family but also when you would go visit your dad before he moved to Egypt

[00:31:24] for that while I was German and still is it's still is German the main reason I think is that

[00:31:31] the fact that my mom raises as a single mom so we were at three kids and most of the time she was

[00:31:37] working so we spent most of the time as to three of us at home or at school obviously at school

[00:31:43] we spoke German with each other we spoke German my brother spoke German with my mom so it was very

[00:31:49] difficult and for me you know to speak Korean with her while my brother's with German with her

[00:31:54] so she just yeah for my mom it was just very difficult to raise us um to top to create was because

[00:32:00] she just didn't spend a lot of time with us I know she like with all three of us should try to

[00:32:06] send us to the Korean school kind of it's a Saturday school in Vienna but you know what child

[00:32:12] wants to go to school on a Saturday so at the end yeah we did and unfortunately we didn't

[00:32:17] end up learning Korean from from her and yeah also today the main language that we speak is

[00:32:22] it's German but I mean you did learn Korean later when you when there's an exchange student right

[00:32:29] you immerse yourself a bit more into the the language part of it I did I did so I know how to

[00:32:35] ride and how to read and understand I would say like 80% and I speak a little bit like my

[00:32:41] speaking is it's very limited simply because I don't have the practice but yeah it's definitely

[00:32:47] a language that I feel even though I'm not fluent in it I feel it's one of my mother tongues

[00:32:53] well you don't actually I mean I've done a bit of research into those and

[00:32:58] I think there's a lot of different definitions that people use for mother tongue and I think

[00:33:03] like the very literal definition of what it actually means for something to be your mother tongue

[00:33:08] is it's the language that your mother spoke to you in when you were still not even born

[00:33:14] when you were still like a fetus um and that's why it's called mother tongue wow and then

[00:33:21] then the term makes perfect sense right yes I never heard that that's super interesting

[00:33:27] yeah so I mean it might very well be your mother tongue you know yeah what about with your

[00:33:33] dad was it also in German with your dad yes with my dad it was always German my

[00:33:40] parents divorced when I was one year old and then I saw my dad every two weeks so he had even

[00:33:47] less opportunity to teach me a rabbit I do remember that I was a period where he tried to teach me at least

[00:33:55] a little bit so there was a time where I could you know count and you know and say I got a couple of

[00:34:00] phrases but also me listening of course and sometimes we were together with his friends and then

[00:34:06] they obviously spoke Arabic so also they're Arabic it's very it's when I hear the language

[00:34:11] it doesn't feel as much home obviously as when I hear Koreans but it also does something to me

[00:34:17] because I also was surrounded by this language a lot in my childhood hmm let's say from an

[00:34:23] political point of view I don't speak the language but from a let's say vibration or point of view

[00:34:28] I I feel I feel the language I want to ask you how do you feel most misunderstood so I mean it

[00:34:37] culturally so how do you feel most misunderstood do you feel like you know when people need to

[00:34:43] and even get to know you do you feel like people try to like you know pigeonhole you like oh you're

[00:34:50] South Korean or normal you're all three you just look different or know you're the surah

[00:34:57] so I think what you mean is like the triggers right what triggers me yeah I think what triggers me

[00:35:06] most is when people okay so that there are two things so one thing is what surprises me

[00:35:15] so what surprises me is when people don't ask about my cultural background because especially

[00:35:22] when I'm in Austria and Europe and they know I speak German I mean if I'm in Austria Germany

[00:35:27] it's a different story but especially when I'm somewhere else in let's say Spain and they know

[00:35:33] my my mother tongue or my main language is German and then they don't ask me where my roots I'm surprised

[00:35:41] I don't mind but I'm surprised because it's very obvious that I don't look Austrian or German

[00:35:45] but triggers me most is when people try to put me into not into a box but sometimes I have

[00:35:55] comments like when I when I tell them okay this is my background I'm South and half Korean my

[00:35:59] mother's Korean my father's Egyptian but I grew up in Austria and then there's a common like

[00:36:04] I so you're basically Austrian and I'm like no I'm not did you know what I'm saying

[00:36:12] I'm also I'm very careful how I explain my background I never say I am Austrian I always say

[00:36:18] I'm a Korean or usually I say not even I am a Korean I say my mother is from South Korea my father

[00:36:23] is from Egypt and I grew up in Austria so I don't say any I am an answer so even then people tell me

[00:36:32] respond with a U.R. answer that really triggers me because I cannot even tell myself what I am so

[00:36:39] I don't like it from people think they kept telling me who I am it obviously doesn't happen in

[00:36:45] no one ever told me so you are basically Korean or you basically Egyptian but the Austrian came up

[00:36:51] because many people associate because I speak German it's my main language and I grew up in Austria

[00:36:59] most people's conclusion is then okay you're from all of the things you're mostly Austrian

[00:37:06] that's something that where I feel really misunderstood would you always say them would you always say

[00:37:12] like my mother is from here my father's from here and I grew up here or did you develop this

[00:37:18] phrasing this way you know I probably unconsciously always said it so the first part my father is

[00:37:26] there my mother is from there I always started that way but the sentence I grew up in Vienna

[00:37:33] developed when I started living abroad because when I was still living in Vienna in Austria

[00:37:39] and I obviously speak the language fluently and it was quite obvious for people that I grew up here

[00:37:45] so I didn't have to mention that but when I then moved abroad then I always had to say okay how do

[00:37:51] bring Austria into this mix now and I never wanted to say I'm Austrian just because my passport is

[00:37:57] Austrian I mean sometimes it's funny sometimes I actually do so my first answer when I'm abroad

[00:38:04] and someone asked me where you from then I say I grew up in Austria and I don't automatically

[00:38:10] mention like I only mentioned my ethnic or background when people then ask further I had to find

[00:38:16] an answer to that question and the answer I am from Austria really didn't feel right because then

[00:38:22] I have this I am part here so I started saying I grew up in Austria so that part developed yeah

[00:38:30] I wanted to ask you if if you have faced any stereotypes or assumptions from others based on your

[00:38:38] multicultural background not so much to be honest and I think the reason for that is because

[00:38:48] my mix is so rare I think it confuses people so much that it's very difficult for them to find a

[00:39:09] people can just they just know what to assume because assumptions are usually made from

[00:39:16] from experiencing something right and then you make a you make a belief out of a certain

[00:39:24] experience that you had so if you had the experience previous experience with people from Korea

[00:39:30] or half Koreans there's something you can assume and it makes perfect sense you know I think it's

[00:39:37] there's this phrase in Egyptian Arabic, Mertehamana vso which means like very at ease with themselves

[00:39:45] and that's the feeling that I get from you is that like you're just very at ease with your

[00:39:51] with yourself you know like not not in conflict with different parts of yourself

[00:39:56] which is so interesting for such a culturally rich background it's the phrase that kind of came

[00:40:02] to mind and I wanted to share that with you. I love it yes can you send me that phrase later on

[00:40:08] what's up? Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah more often I love it yeah it's beautiful expression

[00:40:15] I think Arabic has so many beautiful expressions because it's such a it's a language that uses

[00:40:23] so many metaphors right like compared to European languages so do you feel a particular sense

[00:40:32] of belonging with any specific group or community or do you feel multiple senses of belonging

[00:40:39] in several places? It's kind of yes and no yes yes I do feel belonging to all these cultures

[00:40:48] and no I don't feel belonging to any of these cultures at the same time so it's again it's like

[00:40:56] this yeah in betweenish. I love it a lot better where I love the name of your podcast it's so

[00:41:03] describes it so well it's yeah there's it's just not black and white and I think that's one

[00:41:10] of the main values that we get as this makes us that we learn that things are not black and white

[00:41:17] that the more different they are the more things become gray rather than black and white

[00:41:22] and you really learn that there's no right and wrong there's this and that and yeah you can

[00:41:29] belong here but you can also belong there and it makes you belong nowhere and everywhere at the

[00:41:39] living that in betweenish life because the more black and white thinking you have the more you

[00:41:44] have the tendency to be in either or right you have your more scared to do something wrong

[00:41:49] because they're black and white because they're right and wrong yeah I completely agree with you

[00:41:53] I think that's that is one of the greatest benefits of being cross cultural you don't see the

[00:41:58] world on black and white anymore and I think that's a blessing because I think oftentimes we're stuck

[00:42:03] in these paradigms and it's very it has such a strong grip on how we live our day to day

[00:42:09] and how we perceive things and how we feel about things and it's kind of I feel essentially

[00:42:15] kind of like dictating your life for you whereas when you kind of like break away from that and of

[00:42:22] course being multicultural is not the only way to break away from that but being multicultural forces

[00:42:27] you to kind of confront these blacks and whites because the very cultures that make up who you are

[00:42:34] may clash in different places you know like there's a cultural clash if anything I think it's

[00:42:40] it's a blessing and it gives you strength and character so yeah I completely agree with that

[00:42:46] I did want to ask though growing up how did you manage those cultural clashes when they did come

[00:42:52] in your upbringing I have to confess I didn't experience so many cultural clashes between

[00:43:01] the Korean and the Egyptian cultures simply because yeah my parents were not living together

[00:43:07] and they divorced the quiet and an early stage when I was one year old so I didn't experience

[00:43:14] direct clashes between the Korean and the Egyptian culture I would say the clashes that I

[00:43:22] remember between the Korean and the Austrian culture I have experienced more clashes with my mom

[00:43:29] specifically because even though of course she moved to Austria and she also got kind of

[00:43:39] accustomed with the Austrian culture deep inside of course she's Korean like she's one her

[00:43:43] percent Korean mother for a Korean who are being Korean and she definitely the way how she raised us was

[00:43:50] definitely more Korean than Austrian so there were times where her way of thinking her way of how we

[00:43:59] should behave or what is right and wrong that definitely clashed with the European Austrian culture

[00:44:06] started with how you behave towards elderly people as I said before I did receive more

[00:44:15] Korean education and the Korean values at home that often just did not resonate with the Austrian values

[00:44:25] yeah our parents I must say they also were across cultural but our parents are

[00:44:31] and usually you know of our parents generation there's more monocultural is a might would say so

[00:44:37] even if as an adult you live in a different place but what matters a lot about how you view the

[00:44:44] world is what you were exposed to as a child that's what really forms your systems even though my parents

[00:44:50] like you know left their home countries at a young age and stuff but like I've seen how their

[00:44:55] cultures have come out in different ways that I don't even think they're aware of so it's interesting

[00:45:01] to observe that total what about an Austria do people ever question where you're from in Austria

[00:45:10] because you I mean so you mentioned you know living abroad I don't think we even covered

[00:45:15] that you want to like quickly share like where you've lived so I always already as a child and

[00:45:24] as a teenager I always felt like I wanted to discover the world so I left Austria when I was

[00:45:33] 24 I mean before that of course I did like summers abroad and things like that but

[00:45:38] to really live abroad I left when I was 24 it started with my extra semester in South Korea

[00:45:45] then after that I went to Holland for half a year after that I went to Leeds in England

[00:45:53] then after that I went to Milan in Italy and then when I finished my studies I decided to go to London

[00:45:59] so I lived in London for three years and after three years of London I felt like okay maybe it's time

[00:46:05] you know to live in a city with a bit more sunshine and a bit more quality of life so then I moved

[00:46:12] to Barcelona and in Barcelona I stayed for seven years almost until very recently so I just came back

[00:46:20] to Vienna in October so in total I was abroad for 12 years well that's a long time yeah in all these

[00:46:28] places that you've moved to and lived in an experienced have you ever felt at home in any of these places

[00:46:35] yes and no so I would say everywhere I was or everywhere I lived there was a part of me that felt

[00:46:46] home and I believe it was always a different part that felt home but then there was also always a part

[00:46:53] that didn't make me feel home if I guess it starts with the question what is home how would you

[00:46:59] find home I mean that's that's already probably where conversation starts do you know what home is for

[00:47:05] you? I believe so for me the answer that I found for myself is that the only home that I have

[00:47:13] is myself and the last years I've been also quite intense for me from a spiritual point of view so

[00:47:19] I really do a lot also on I really live my spirituality like not not found to a religion but yeah I'm

[00:47:26] doing a lot of spiritual practices and in spirituality this is also one of the main questions

[00:47:30] now where do we come from and where do we belong and where is home and on that journey I think

[00:47:37] I kind of found my answer at home for me is really not something external so it's not related to

[00:47:42] a country it's not related to a language it's not related to a religion it's not related to people

[00:47:48] even because for a long time I always said home is where my family is and that would then be

[00:47:54] Austria-Coviet Egypt but then I realized that's also not really it so yeah that's spiritual journey

[00:48:01] I discovered that home is nothing external it's something very internal so it's really just

[00:48:10] me that is home I kind of bring me as home to different places so that's why I think I could

[00:48:19] also feel home in all of these places where I lived so I believe the reason why I can feel home

[00:48:26] no matter where I am is because my definition of home is just I'm with myself how present am I

[00:48:32] with myself you know how confident how how satisfied how balanced do I feel with myself and

[00:48:40] how connected especially am I to my true self and the more I I'm connected to my true self the more

[00:48:46] home I love that you reach that conclusion through your spiritual practice I think it's because

[00:48:56] it's often spiritualities often left out of the equation out of the conversation when we talk

[00:49:01] about belonging and home and being a misfit sometimes we don't belong and I think the spiritual

[00:49:08] part of it doesn't really make it into the conversation so I love that you you found your way

[00:49:14] of finding your home and what that means to you through that and for me that's that's the

[00:49:20] main question of spirituality like who am I who are we where we coming from where we're going

[00:49:25] and all religions try to give an answer to this or they do give an answer all in their

[00:49:33] own ways you know a lot of things are the same across various religions but then of course

[00:49:39] religion has a differences but for me personally without any of fans towards any kind of religion

[00:49:46] from your religion is just a framework made by humans for humans to answer these questions

[00:49:55] but unfortunately in my opinion most of your religions have lost the essence because it's

[00:50:03] from human by human for human it's yeah there's a lot of loss in my opinion when we stick too much

[00:50:11] to this kind of moves that they put on and that's why I distance myself from religion

[00:50:18] just really focused on this main questions and discovered it tried to figure those questions out

[00:50:26] for myself without any kind of influence and yeah so spirituality for me is really a discovery of

[00:50:33] of my own being and my own soul without having anyone from the outside telling me

[00:50:40] anything about how I should experience or go on to this journey of discovering

[00:50:48] the stakes we took last question and I wanted to ask you about an untranslatable word in one of

[00:50:59] language yes so my words is German and so in German you say fan the fan the I'm not gonna

[00:51:11] I'm not gonna try to pretend like you know those one of the like easier pronounceable words

[00:51:20] in German so the word is actually two words and the first word to fan means something is far

[00:51:28] and they means there's some kind of longing so it's kind of the longing for something far yeah so

[00:51:37] that's the literal translation and the way how you use this word is that you always no matter

[00:51:44] where you are you're always longing for something that is further out or that is far away so you're

[00:51:51] always kind of what I explained before when I was a child this this inner motivation to go out

[00:51:58] and to discover the world you know not to stay still not to be stuck where you are but to really

[00:52:03] just go out and discover whatever there is whatever is far from you and not to not close to you

[00:52:11] and it really resonates you know with me with how I see life with the whole conversation that we

[00:52:17] had today that this is kind of a fan base something it's not only only for mixed

[00:52:23] mixed cultures like us it's also for people that you know when you stay when you haven't been

[00:52:28] on holidays for a long time you know and you also say I have fan bay you know I just want to

[00:52:34] go somewhere and do something and you know go abroad can you use it about a person as well

[00:52:40] and no it's really about places places are interesting yeah I think that's a beautiful word

[00:52:48] I don't know of anywhere that means that in the different languages that I speak is it always

[00:52:54] longing for something you have known a place you've known or even it can be places that you don't

[00:53:00] even know it's actually mainly about places that you don't know it just means it just means you

[00:53:06] longing for something further out and that you know and that can it can be a place that you know

[00:53:14] you know so you can say for example when I haven't been on holidays for a long time and

[00:53:20] I can say okay I have family or would be so nice to be in Bali now for example

[00:53:25] and it could be that you've been to Bali already once in your life it could be never been

[00:53:30] it's just like it's just an expression of saying wherever I'm right now I don't want to be

[00:53:35] just one of these sounds further out such an aspect word honestly I wonder what the roots of this word

[00:53:42] so that's a wrap for today if you've enjoyed this conversation don't forget to hit subscribe

[00:53:47] to never miss an episode the in-be-twinish pod is created and hosted by Beatrice Norr

[00:53:53] the behind-the-scenes magic is thanks to Happy Betrobee and original music is composed and produced

[00:54:00] by Malik and Masidi I love hearing from our listeners so feel free to reach out to me anytime

[00:54:06] join us every other Tuesday and remember the quest for belonging never ends

[00:54:12] and you are not alone keep exploring keep embracing and keep celebrating that in between