how do you keep your culture alive when forced to start anew? — with Sarah

[00:00:00] This is a place where we talk about belonging. Welcome to the Inbetweenish. I'm Beatriz Nour, your host. Raised in three cultures, two religions, and four languages, trust me, I get the chaos. On the show, I chat with those who have lived that Inbetweenish life, a foot here and a foot there, building bridges across cultures, and of course, the age-old quest to finding home.

[00:00:32] Today, I bring you a fascinating conversation with a young woman, Sara Baharaki, who first arrived to the UK as a 17-year-old teenager, fleeing terrible circumstances back in her home country. Hers is a story of resilience, of hope, of keeping one's culture alive, and you hear throughout this conversation how she very intentionally does that, while balancing and weaving in new parts of a new culture she never chose herself.

[00:01:01] When we sat down to record this conversation, she was just 19 years old, just shy of turning 20. She is such a strong advocate for women's rights and equal education for all, carving her path out against all odds into the UN youth program, advocating for rights we should all have as human beings. I hope you truly listen to this conversation with an open heart and understand the underlying message Sara stands for and lives by.

[00:01:31] So let's turn the mic to her and ask her the question we ask all our guests this season. What is your ish? My ish is being from a whole different country, coming from a Middle Eastern culture, but living in a European, a totally different country in the UK, which has a total different culture.

[00:01:56] And these two cultures are very different that I'm in between, kind of adapting to being from one culture and adapting to a new one, which is totally different to my own culture and languages as well. Yeah, language. Language can be something that I'm in between because Persian and English are totally different languages.

[00:02:21] The way we write, our literature, everything is different with Persian than it is with English. So that is something I also consider to be my ish. And in terms of the cultures that make up who you are, what are those cultures? For me, it is the way we live, actually.

[00:02:46] Because back in our area, the Asian countries, we are very social. We are very hospitable. We keep the connections. We keep the bonds very, very close to our heart. And we do really keep them. It's not like an individualistic life. We do not only think about ourselves, put it in a better wording.

[00:03:14] We take other people's minds. We take other people into consideration when we make a decision or plan or everything. Whilst in Europe, their culture is a bit individualistic. Moving in between houses, seeing each other, like everything is very, very small. I would say they're keeping these very close people close.

[00:03:39] But in our culture, in our countries, our family can be our neighbors, can be anyone. And we keep that very strong connection alive. I've heard many times, you know, European cultures being characterized as more individualistic. And I think to a large extent that's true.

[00:04:03] Having also lived, you know, in the East and also in the West, I definitely felt that sense of individualism more in the West. Tell me a little bit more about where you were born and raised. So I'm originally from Afghanistan. I was born in Badakhshan, which is a province in Afghanistan, which is a lot more.

[00:04:29] The connections are a lot more stronger in my province. So people from Badakhshan are known to be more hospitable, more kind and nice in my country, which is Afghanistan. So I was born there, but I was raised in Kabul, which is the capital of the country. And we have a beautiful culture. Our food is amazing. And I think many people would agree.

[00:04:56] And our traditional dress, which is Gant. We have a lot of, because in our country, there's a variety of different cultures, even within the country, like different languages, different ways people live. So it makes the country very rich in terms of culture. We have different types of clothing. We have different languages. We have different food and different people and different ways of living. Which I believe makes us special.

[00:05:26] Because we get to live different lives, living in a very multicultural country. Yeah, I was watching... Do you know Yes Theory? No. There's a channel on YouTube and they travel to lots of different places and try to share the cultures of those places.

[00:05:50] And when they went to Afghanistan, one of the things that they were saying about the country is that, yeah, it's such a melting pot of different cultures. And I think when you consume anything about Afghanistan purely through traditional media, it is in the news a lot and usually not favorably. You have such a distorted image of what Afghanistan is. Yeah.

[00:06:18] I mean, even to me, it was like, wow, there's so much diversity in this country that I was not used to seeing either. Because again, it's not really portrayed in that light in Western media. That is true. Yeah. Looking at the news and I feel that if I was not from Afghanistan, what would I think about the country?

[00:06:41] And it is horrible thinking about that image because everything that is being portrayed in media is about bombing and everything. But there's a lot more to the country. There's a lot more to the culture and the world of literature that is not being portrayed, which is quite sad because we're talking about a country, a whole country with millions of people living there.

[00:07:11] So having that image, that bad image of war representing the whole country is quite sad for me as a person who weighs from that country. So that was the big reason why I chose art to actually show the world and the people living in the UK, showing them that. No, like my country is not all about war or explosions. There's a lot more to it, like art, like culture, poetry and everything. How long did you live in Afghanistan?

[00:07:42] 17 years of my life. Wow. Yeah, I lived there 17 years of my life and I had to leave my country after the Taliban took over in 2021. Just three days after them taking over the capital, I had to leave with my family. And we moved to the UK. Can you take me back to that time? Before, yeah, before the Taliban took over.

[00:08:11] I'm not saying that we were living a perfect life. There were still security issues, bombings, explosions, suicide explosions happening everywhere, kidnapping. That was happening from their side, from the Taliban side. But people still had the minimum rights every human being is entitled to. Like we could still go to school. We could still work, still wear what we wanted to.

[00:08:39] We could freely like go out. Although it was like comparing to the life people has in these countries, like the UK, it was not like a very, say, desirable life that the people had. But we were still happy. Like if I, even living here, if I could get any chance to go back and live in Afghanistan, in the Afghanistan that we had before Taliban came, took over.

[00:09:07] I would still want to go and live the life I was living. And I'm pretty sure many have the same idea. I had just graduated December 2020. Before that, I was going to school. The girls being in the school, like living their lives. And then we had all, we all had this, this dream of applying to university and maybe going to university together with our friends.

[00:09:35] And we were imagining, I do remember the times that our school was very beautiful. So we would go in the garden of our school and sit and then imagine the life we would have after graduating from school. But unfortunately, Taliban took over and everyone, now everyone is living in like different parts of the world, miles away from each other.

[00:10:00] But yeah, as I said, we didn't have a perfect life, but we were still happily living. And I do, I do remember the feeling of actually living the life, although being in a completely destroyed country in terms of security, which was taken away from us. You graduated in December 2020 from high school. Yeah, from high school.

[00:10:29] And then in the span of eight months, things changed pretty quickly, pretty drastically. Yeah. And then in August, the Taliban took over Kabul. Yeah. 2021 was a challenging year, I would say, because it started, I believe it had started already from 2020,

[00:10:55] because we would hear these rumors of them taking over, but no one would believe actually, because in this 20 years, we only like, there's no way that the Taliban would take over again. Because like, we were hearing from our grandparents about their stories from the Taliban regime and everything. And it was, it was a far away thing from us.

[00:11:21] But it happened very surprisingly in a blink of an eye. And nobody could believe. I wasn't sure, actually, for a very, for a very long time after the Taliban took over. And I still couldn't believe that it actually has happened. And in 2021, they started taking over these provinces. And then gradually, they came to Kabul, which was the last province they took in August 2021.

[00:11:51] But before that, they were gradually taking over these provinces, starting from my own province, Adashan. The province you were born in and grew up in. Yeah. And the very, the very fun fact, I don't want to say fun, but the interesting fact is that in their previous regime, Badakhshan and I believe Panjshir was the only two province that they did not have full control over. But this time they started from Badakhshan.

[00:12:22] Oh, wow. Yeah. Let's go back to August 2021, when the Taliban took over Kabul. And you mentioned that three days later, your family and you fled. Yeah. There's so many questions of like, how did you, as a family, come to that decision? How did you know that was the moment to leave? How do you know where to go? Where do you go?

[00:12:51] I don't think it's a situation people should find themselves in. And I think it's a situation that a lot of people wouldn't understand, no matter how they might try to understand. Yeah. So from your perspective, and at the time you were an older teenager, right? What was going on from your perspective?

[00:13:14] Actually, for the people leaving their home, I mean, homeland, for safety reasons. It's not really, like, they don't really think about where to go. Where exactly? They don't think about location. Because once you leave home, then any country would be okay, as long as it's safe. Because then you can never find a home in any other country.

[00:13:43] So the location was really not a big of a deal, as long as we were safe. And safety was one of the main reasons that we had to leave the country, as many did. And at that moment, any option that was the fastest, that's what we were thinking about. And yeah, the UK one was the first. And indeed the fastest.

[00:14:09] Because a lot of people still stayed in the country for a month or so after the Taliban took over. But back then, the location was not really the most important thing. When you try to escape death, then that's when you understand that, like, anywhere. Because you're leaving your home anyway. You're leaving everything anyway.

[00:14:36] So does it really matter where else you would go? I don't think it does. It didn't for us. Yeah. I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I think it's very unfortunate. And I think it's not something people should have to go through. Yeah. You know, losing everything, like, pretty suddenly. And pretty, like, being uprooted, you know, essentially.

[00:15:08] Having to flee in three days after. That's really being uprooted and really, you know, like you were saying, like, we didn't even think about where to go. It's just you want to get out alive. Yeah. I think it's incredibly unfortunate that we live in a world that these things happen. And I don't think it should ever be normalized. No, yeah. Never.

[00:15:34] Actually, I was thinking about once I left the country, the fact that my story is not the most challenging one. And there is a lot of other stories. People still being in the camps, you know, unaware of their future. Living in a complete uncertain moment for months. That's, that's, that's really unfortunate to me.

[00:16:04] Although what I have gone through myself was not an easy thing. And it's not something anyone should go through. But, but thinking about those people who had to live in a, in a worse way than mine. That's, that really breaks my heart. Thinking about how many people and by many, I mean thousands. Yeah. But yeah, as you said, it shouldn't be normalized.

[00:16:30] And I really hope that the wars and everything ends one day. And all these other wars happening after, after I left my country, I was not really expecting it to happen. Because I was thinking that, like in 21st century, in these years, war should be the last thing that would be happening to any country, in any country in the world. But unfortunately, no. As we see, you know, what's going on with Palestine.

[00:17:00] It's absolutely crazy. It's a lot horrible than what I have gone through. A lot, nothing in compare. But fingers crossed for a world without war. I think eventually that will happen in human development. But I, I unfortunately think, I think we're still far from that being a reality. So at 17, you moved to the UK.

[00:17:30] And you talked earlier on, you started off by saying that you balance two different cultures within you. A Middle Eastern culture and a European culture. Had you ever been to the UK previously? No, it was my first time. Ever. Yeah. It was quite a culture shock. Tell me a bit more about this culture shock.

[00:17:59] The very first thing was about the physical appearance. Once I got there, I got to the UK. But that's not very important because it's not something that I had never seen. But what do you mean by the physical appearance? Because I moved from a Muslim country to a European, say a Christian country.

[00:18:27] So it was a bit different in terms of physical appearance because in my country, everybody's wearing these modest, a lot modest outfits. And everybody, specifically women, they do wear a scarf. Maybe not a hijab, but a scarf. Either on their head, on their neck, on their shoulders. But they do have that scarf.

[00:18:54] But here, when I got here, seeing different people. There were people who had the same way of dressing, like the people in my country. But there were people who didn't. So it was like, it was more diverse in here. Because in my country, all of them are Afghans. But when I got to the UK, there are people from different parts of the world.

[00:19:23] They all showcase their cultures in many different ways. So that was something very interesting to me. And I really liked it, actually. The fact that all these cultures coming. You know, all this harmony of these cultures coming in a country and living together peacefully. I really liked that part. But with physical appearance, I would say the dressing and everything. Yeah. That was a new thing.

[00:19:52] Like comparing my country to UK. But yeah, as I said, it was not something very new that I had never seen. So what was the biggest culture shock? Yeah. As I said before, about the individualism in here. And this individualistic type of living. That was a culture shock to me.

[00:20:19] Even some phrases or the way people were speaking was also a challenging part. Because in our languages, we use different phrases or different words when we talk to elder people. So that was something that I had to adapt. It took me a while to actually adapt to that. Because I could never call people by their name if they were older than me. Because we never do that in our country.

[00:20:46] Or we cannot refer to the elder people as you. The same as we refer to, say, the people of our age or the smaller people. We call you. We refer to them as you or their name. But that's a whole different thing in my country and my language. So that was the thing. Because if I couldn't call people, I don't know, uncle or auntie, I was always referring to them as miss or mister.

[00:21:12] But then, although they were telling me that, no, you can just call us by our name. And I found it very hard to do that. I don't know. I was thinking it's very disrespectful to actually call people by their name. But no, it's a part of the culture. It's an okay thing here, but never in my country. Yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah, it's funny. Because even in English, we don't even have different terminology for our elders, right?

[00:21:42] It's all the same. Exactly. But in certain languages, there's you, how you can speak normally. And then there's you, more honorable you almost. Yeah, true. And then in English, you don't have that, even in the fabric of the language. So it's completely different. Yeah, it is totally different.

[00:22:06] I still have the knee-jerk reaction to refer to people as Mr. or Mrs. when they're older than me. Not by a couple of years, but a decade or two. I still have that, like, oh my God, no, I can't. I know, yeah. You cannot just call them by their name. Yeah. Yeah. We had a family friend. She's from the UK. And then in the beginning, it was really hard for me to actually know what to call them.

[00:22:35] I cannot obviously say you. So what should I say? And then she was kind enough to tell me that I can call her auntie. So that it would give me this relief, you know, of all these thoughts. And it did actually, but I still like using these verbs, referring to them. It's still feel a bit different.

[00:22:57] I can call them auntie, but like, even with words, we add these suffix, these special suffix that can be used for elder people. Yeah. But in English, we don't have it. But yeah, I'm getting used to it now. Not 100%. I still have problems. But I'm trying to understand that it's an okay thing to do so.

[00:23:23] Tell me about like balancing, you know, now that you've been there for almost three years, how are you balancing your Afghan culture and this new British culture that you are still in the process, I would say like getting accustomed to and learning. So how do you internally balance these two for yourself?

[00:23:49] Yeah, it's quite hard actually talking about this because I know people who have actually chose one side. Like you have to either, you know, completely devote yourself to this culture, this new culture, this new way of living, or you can keep them both, you know. And I decided to keep them both, which actually worked.

[00:24:15] Because our culture is very respectful, I would say. It kind of teaches you to respect a lot and to be positive a lot and to be kind a lot, which is a good thing to have throughout life, no matter where you live in. So that made it a lot easier for me because I still have a lot of respect to elder people. I let them go first when I wait for the bus, for example.

[00:24:44] And today it makes them happy. This is something I adopted from my culture because here specifically the teenagers do not really do that. So it is something that makes people surprised. It kind of like makes them question where I'm from. Because I had a couple of, yeah, I had a couple of people asking me, oh, where you're from? And it actually makes me happy. I don't know, it's something that I should be proud of.

[00:25:09] Respecting people, making them smile, being kind to them, being hospitable, and having gratitude. That is something that I'm more happy to carry on, to have it throughout my life, no matter if I live in my country or not. But here, I don't know if you know it, but the teenagers are more, like, these years are more on the air.

[00:25:37] They're living for themselves and, like, they're having their best time, you know. And the teenagers from my country will be more think about the elder people than ourselves. That's what makes us a bit different from the teenagers here. Which I didn't say that, like, of course I felt it, but I had people from the UK telling me that. And appreciating our way of, you know, living.

[00:26:03] And that makes me happy, knowing the fact that we have a rich culture. Yeah. It's a lot more communal, right? Like, community plays a much bigger role. So, I think it's something that, maybe in the spirit of modernization or whatever it may be, but for some reason the West, or a lot of places in the West have lost that, the importance of community.

[00:26:30] I think people are becoming more aware of it today. At least people are aware there's a problem. We actually need community because we are social beings, you know. But I want to ask you something. How do you keep your Afghan culture alive today? For you, for yourself? Now that you're immersed in a British culture, you're going to a British university, you are...

[00:27:01] I mean, the interesting thing is the UK is also very mixed. I think other places in Europe are a bit more insular and a bit more homogenous. There's not as much... Diversity. Yeah, there's not as much diversity. So, I think in the UK, it's a bit more diverse, which is a good thing in my point of view. But how do you keep your Afghan culture alive?

[00:27:29] I really like that you said that, you know, some people chose to go all into one culture, but you chose to keep your Afghan side alive. And I'm just wondering how you do that. It's just by showing and teaching. Because I believe that every culture is beautiful. And every culture should be practiced. And that's what I think about my culture as well.

[00:27:56] And I think that teaching people about it makes it a lot easier to keep it. Obviously, there are bad parts about a culture as well. And what I'm trying to keep is the good parts of my culture and trying to kind of replace the bad parts with the good things that I take from European culture.

[00:28:19] So, the good parts of my culture, I try to practice it and kind of like transfer it to the people around me and teach it and live it. Which is a good thing because we need to share positive things and transfer positive things to the people around us. And that's a practical part of how I keep it. Like, I still eat the same food, which is a big part of our culture.

[00:28:48] And whenever we invite people from the UK to our house, we cook them our food. And I still slightly more or less dress the same way. Whenever I get a chance, I have kept my language. And that also creates a big part of our culture as well. And yeah, just talking about it, actually teaching and educating people on my culture

[00:29:15] because it is something that has not been done a lot. Because, you know, what we see in the media and I feel myself responsible to teach, to educate people on what my culture is, on what my country actually is like. And on that process of teaching them and practicing it, I find myself actually keeping the culture alive.

[00:29:43] In one of our earlier calls, you said something that really stood out to me. You said, I'm a funny person in my language. Can I be funny in another language? Oh, that was, yeah. That was a challenge for me as well. Because, oh my God, when I first entered school, I don't know, in my country, like you get very friendly, very easily and like on the spot, very quickly.

[00:30:12] Maybe because we share the same language. That can be part of it. Yeah, I think that is a big part of it. So when I got here and I started school and I was like, how can I keep that funny side of me? Like, you know, how can I keep it? Like, because I don't really know a lot of jokes in English and translating my jokes to English makes it horrible to say to people. So how do I actually do that?

[00:30:39] And it was quite a challenging thing that I had to adapt with. I do, okay, let me say something. I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't want to seem rude or disrespectful, but I don't think we have very funny jokes in English. It's not a fun language. I don't disagree with you. Goodness, yeah.

[00:31:08] Because, oh my God, no. The amount of jokes that we have in our language, and it can like have you laughing hours and hours long. We don't have that in English. We're probably, I haven't learned them yet. So that is a challenge for me that I still face, yeah. But no, I am funny. I am funny and I still have people laughing when they're around me, which is good, yeah. But it took me a while to actually be able to do that

[00:31:35] because I was really boring when I didn't know the language. Not because I was as a person, but because of the limitations that I had. But now I found myself to be good, yeah, from that perspective. Yeah, I do believe language opens up a lot of doors and it's so important. I think it's very important when you live in a country to be able to speak that language because it helps tremendously.

[00:32:03] It helps with connecting with others. And yeah, of course, jokes don't always translate. I mean, or hardly. And there's nuances, right, in languages that just fall flat when you try to repeat it in a different language or to translate it. Sometimes you just try not to say anything because that's how I was. I was thinking about what if it sounds rude to people

[00:32:33] instead of making them laugh, making them cry. Like, that's why I was like, I have to just stay quiet. Yeah. That's funny. I really like how you were sharing how you keep your Afghan culture alive. Do you hope to go back to Afghanistan one day? I do, yeah. Sometimes I think about, it's quite sad.

[00:33:01] But it's quite sad sometimes thinking about going back and the fear of not being the same person again or not actually being able to live the way we did. Like, sometimes I ask myself, what if I don't see Afghanistan from the same lens that I used to do? It's quite scary,

[00:33:29] but I really do hope to be back once everything's fixed and actually live there. Everything I do now, every decision I take, I have that in mind that one day I'll be back and I'll actually be living there instead. So any decision that I take or make is based on that factor that I'll one day go back. And we do believe that we will have peace one day,

[00:33:59] but when is the question? We always, with my friends, we always talk about as we used to, you know, imagine that future of going to university inside our country. But now the hopes and dreams are different. We dream about going back to our country, but it's really, it's really hard actually even imagining even if we go back,

[00:34:29] it's not going to be the same or at least we will never be the same. Because once you leave your home and become a refugee, then you'll never find a home ever again. Even in your homeland, you do not belong to anywhere fully. But I really do hope to be back one day. No one's ever quite put it in those words on the podcast. And I think that that's a very powerful sentiment

[00:34:59] and very sad. I do think when we leave places, when we come back, it's not the same. And I'm talking about not in difficult circumstances, but I think in difficult circumstances, because you've changed, right? This experience has changed you. It's matured you. It's molded you. So going back, you would be a different person. Afghanistan would be a different place because it's also gone through

[00:35:26] a new batch of history. So I don't think when we go back to places that we once belonged to, I don't think it's a perfect puzzle. Yeah. You were saying that every decision you make, you have Afghanistan in mind. And I wanted to ask you about your education, advocacy and activism. And you were recently, you're too humble to mention it, but I will mention it.

[00:35:56] You were recently invited to speak at the United Nations headquarters at the Youth Forum in New York City. And I wanted to ask you about this journey of advocating for education for all and the right and the access to education. Yeah. First of all, thank you. But the story of where it came from is sad. And I hope that it was a different story

[00:36:23] that let me be an advocate for education. But unfortunately, that's what happened. And when the Taliban closed school doors on girls in 2021, talking about like just three years ago, now that we live in this world, education should be the least, like the last thing to worry about. But the whole like, how population of a country is bound for education.

[00:36:53] That was the starting point for me. Although before that, with the youth empowerment, we have been doing a lot of things in school with the gender-based works, even before they followed up to Taliban because I was working as a research assistant in WCLRF, which is a Women and Children's Legal Rights Foundation. But yeah, but actually starting, like feeling that responsibility and feeling that

[00:37:23] that is the ultimate goal was when my friends, my, I would call them sisters, when they got banned from attending schools, universities, when it was just the start of life for them. That was really hard even for me. I can never put myself on their shoes. But as a person, like witnessing this from outside,

[00:37:53] even then it was hard. Like for me, it was hard. I cannot imagine how hard it is for them. Still, three years, those rights were taken away from them. So that's when it started. And I started advocating for women rights and education and working with all these organizations that aimed for providing quality education, which is one of the biggest sustainable development goals. And that was eventually

[00:38:22] working with them and advocating to me being the keynote speakers in the youth forum at United Nations headquarters in New York. But I really hope that there would not be a need to still in 21st century advocate for quality education or advocate for gender equality. because because it has started from a very, very long period of time

[00:38:51] and it has been going. So when are we going to see the results? Although we are, but it's still like not fair for different parts of the world. We cannot just close our eyes on the countries that still face these challenges related to either education or gender-based challenges. we cannot just see these developed nations, these you know, big countries and say that yeah, well,

[00:39:20] the world is a better place now because the world is not like evolving around only these two or our list of countries. But all these other countries like my country in a whole different side of the world is still a part of the world. Yeah. And looking at these countries and what's going on, we clearly can say that the world is still not a better place for the future generations to live in from all different perspectives.

[00:39:51] Although advocacy and raising your voice is a powerful thing and I believe everybody no matter if they have experienced these challenges that has led them to actually be an advocate for solving those challenges regardless of the experience or not should stand up for other people because we all live in the same world and if one part of the world is in pain then the rest of the world will eventually see the impacts on them as well. It never stays

[00:40:21] in the borders of a country. Definitely goes out. It's like a virus, you know? Yeah. And also like not only that, we shouldn't only see the impact that it leaves on us you know, as people because we are all like one. Yeah. So I think yeah. I think it's beautiful to advocate but I hope that very soon we don't have to advocate for these

[00:40:50] very basic rights that everyone is entitled to and it shouldn't really be a privilege. And now we're getting to the part of the episode where I ask you about your untranslatable word. You mentioned that you wanted to share a phrase as well. So yeah, I'm very curious to see what you're sharing. Okay. It's a really cute one. I would say that we always

[00:41:20] we we see this phrase quite often. Oh, wow. I'm not going to try to repeat that. No, it's a hard one. I know if you translated it means that your place is above my eyes which means that like I have a huge respect for you or you're very valuable to me can be translated into that but but just the phrasing of like use eyes and like you your place

[00:41:50] above my eyes and everything is like not translatable to English. It's a phrase that we often use. And this is in Dari? This is in Persian, yeah. In Persian, okay. Yeah. Can you say it slowly? Jaya Shema Balaya Dida Still not going to try to pronounce it. I know it's hard. But it sounds really beautiful. I really like the way it sounds when you say it. We always say like whenever somebody say, I don't know,

[00:42:20] even when you say goodbye to people and then saying that thank you so much for coming to our houses and then you say you always please come to my house like your place is above my eyes. So is that how it's used? like at the end of a meeting or like an encounter? Not really but yeah, it can be used anywhere actually, in any place. Like if you ask me to do something? Like a favour?

[00:42:50] Okay, maybe not that because we have another very close phrase for that one. We say I cannot even translate in English. Chash means I and if you ask me for a favour I can say I to you. Like an I or like? Like an I. Chash, if you translate it, it's an I. But if you ask me for a favour and I say yes, I will do it, I say

[00:43:20] Chash, which means I. It's so interesting, you also have like these sayings around eyes because in Arabic we have like when someone asks you for a favour or for something, one of the responses can be which means from my two eyes. When you translate it exactly, it sounds weird, but essentially it means yes, I'd do anything for you, I'd give you anything. We actually have this too, we call it Bahardu Dida.

[00:43:51] Yeah, Dida, Bahardu means like two of them, like both eyes. Oh wow. If you ask me for a favour, I can say Bahardu Dida, which means for both of my eyes. Yeah. Or something like that. And then I can say Bachushim or like for eye as well. So do you guys also have like the hand gesture that accompanies it? Yeah, we put our hand on our chest Oh, on your chest. Okay, okay.

[00:44:20] Because in Arabic countries you put, or I know this more in Egypt specifically, but in Egypt you put your hand like under your like on your cheek under your eye and then under your other eye and that kind of means the same thing. It is so interesting. Oh, that's really interesting. Oh, that's so cute. Okay, I really like that. It is cute, isn't it? Yeah, I mean like that too. We definitely like Middle Eastern cultures definitely have a thing with eyes, like they play a very big role. So to go back to the

[00:44:50] phrase that you were sharing, the first one that I don't know how to say, what does it mean? Like not the word for word translation because it doesn't translate, but what's the meaning of it? what means you're always welcome. I have so much respect for you and you have a special place for me that your place is above my eye, like that's special. Wow. Yeah. That's

[00:45:20] beautiful. Did you have another word you wanted to share? I think I, you know, because I couldn't think about these other two, so I was like, okay, maybe I'll come up with the word. The word is tarif, which can be used in many different ways, but we could talk about that like for hours. What is tarif? What does that mean? So tarif, how to translate it is really hard. I would say sometimes you can

[00:45:50] use it as greeting people. For example, you're going to like, you're invited somewhere for dinner and then the owner of the house asking you to, you know, have a little bit from that and then you always say that they were tarifing, like they were like, what am I saying? Not tarifing, they like tarif me, kadan. Did you just give it the English? Like, did you just turn it into a verb? I did. I did.

[00:46:20] Oh my god, it was an irony of that. Oh my god. That was a good cross-cultural moment right there. Goodness, that's what we call in between, you know? Okay. That probably recorded right there. But yeah, so it is really confusing. I really don't know how to explain it fully. But tarif, yeah, it can be the way people see you, it can be the way people act, treat you,

[00:46:50] all these sort of different meanings, yeah. For example, you can also say like, if you go to a wedding, they can ask you what they had for menu. They had this and this and this, but you can use the word tarif, you can say, you need a tarif kadan, which means like, there was this dish in the menu. Do you know what I mean? I don't know if I could explain it fully, but.

[00:47:20] So the wedding menu one, no, I didn't understand, but earlier when you turned it into a verb in English, I understood what you meant because I think we have a similar thing in Arabic actually. Okay, good. We have a new English word. It is very interesting. I think Persian is also very poetic. Oh, it is, yeah. In terms of how people express themselves and words can mean so many different things, much like Arabic. I think there are some crossovers,

[00:47:49] although they're completely different languages, but there are some crossovers and it's always difficult when you try to translate these things into English because, again, it's one of these things where it just falls flat. I think we just don't have the right words with the right nuance. Yeah, it is really hard, specifically with poetry, with poems, it's really hard. It's really hard to, you can still translate them, but that feeling it gives you, that sort of different meaning and

[00:48:19] feeling it gives you in its own pure language. It's totally different. I can still read the translation of some of the poems that Amalona, one of the most famous poets of our country. Amalona. Amalona, Jalaluddin, Muhammad, so-called Ruby. Ruby? You know Ruby? Yeah. His name is Mawlona, Jalaluddin,

[00:48:49] Muhammad, Balkhi. Balkhi is a place in my country and it's his surname. For example, my surname is Bahoraki. Bahoraki is a place in my country and I call myself Bahoraki, which means I'm from there. He also had Balkhi, which means he's from Balkhi. Interesting. Balkhi is a place in my country. So wait, why did he come to be known as Rumi if that's not his name? It is very interesting because so many countries argues about

[00:49:17] kind of, no, I wouldn't say arguing. I don't know the correct word for this. Debate? I wouldn't say debate actually. How to say it? Probably debate that Rumi was from Turkey because he has died there in Konya. So they claim him. They think he was treated. Yeah, that's the correct word. They're claiming Rumi to be from Turkey. But Rumi

[00:49:46] is from Balkhi. But he has visited a lot of places. That's why he has lived in different places. That's why these different countries are claiming him to be from those countries. So you read Rumi in Persian? Yeah, we read Rumi's poems in Persian and once it's translated to English, it just gives those two straight sentences in English. you don't add these ads,

[00:50:16] these volumes once translated to English, which makes it not very poetic. How interesting. But wait, you didn't answer my question. Why is he called Rumi in the Western world, I guess, when that's not his name? I would say because his name is hard. Abdull this and Abdull that. And in these countries, they don't

[00:50:44] call the name fully, they say Abdull, which is like a prefix for all these different names. But they call all those different names Abdull. So I would assume that's why. So that's a wrap for today. If you've enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to hit subscribe to never miss an episode. The In Between-ish pod is created and hosted by Beatrice Noor. The behind the scenes magic is thanks to Habibah Ruby.

[00:51:15] And original music is composed and produced by Malik and Masidi. I love hearing from our listeners, so feel free to reach out to me anytime. Join us every other Tuesday and remember, the quest for belonging never ends and you are not alone. Keep exploring, keep embracing, and keep celebrating that in-betweenish life.