can you find where you belong halfway across the world? — with Shreya

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: This is a place where we talk about belonging

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to the inbetweenish. I'm Beatriz Nour, your host. Raised in three cultures,

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: two religions and four languages. Trust me, I get the chaos. On the show, I chat with those who have

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: lived that inbetweenish life. A foot here and a foot there. Building bridges across cultures

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and of course, the age-old quest to finding home. Today I'm talking to Shreya Sharma who goes by the

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: pronouns she, her. Shreya is a podcast marketer by Day who finds herself immersed in melancholic

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_03]: contemplation by night. She is also a writer and she occasionally publishes her very own newsletter

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: where she invites you to discover her love affairs with sounds and audio. It's very aptly called

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Shreya's audio affairs and you can find it on substack which is linked in the show notes below.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: She enjoys things with multiple layers to them like mythology, poetry and cakes. And now in

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_03]: her own words, let's hear from Shreya and I'm starting off with the main introductory question

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_03]: for the season which is, what is your ish? So I'm, I was born in India. Let's start with that.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I was born in India and my parents moved to Dubai when I was, I think, barely two years old.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So for all intents and purposes, I say I've been born and raised in Dubai because I don't

[00:01:42] [SPEAKER_00]: really have any memory of a year before that. I will say Dubai, but well they moved to Dubai

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and then they just moved all over the Gulf. So we have lived in Dubai, Musket, Doha, Oman,

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like a bunch of places and then somewhere in the middle I lived in India for a while.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And Indian is definitely part of my identity, but having been raised in

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Dubai is also part of my identity and I moved to Vancouver. Well, I moved to Canada about seven

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: years ago. Now I'm a naturalized Canadian so that is legally my identity and also Canada does feel

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: like it is part of me. So my ish is all over the place beautifully so but it's complicated. Yeah.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: It's complicated is a great way to sum up being in between ish because it really is like

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a lot of different elements to it. It's not just about like where your parents are

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: from, but like you know how you feel and what you are identified as. And it goes down to languages

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you're comfortable in religion, faith. So yeah, it's complicated is a good way to sum it up I think.

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're definitely a third culture kid. Are you familiar with that term? Do you identify as such?

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I found that term out from you when we had this like co-working session together

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you told me about this term. And I remember thinking that it's fascinating and I googled it and

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: I read about it in addition to obviously listening to the podcast as well. It's interesting because

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: it clicked with me and I didn't know even that it was a thing. So for instance, I have generalized

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: anxiety disorder and then like the first time I found out that I have that and it clicked.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh okay this makes sense. Like now I don't feel as othered basically. So having a term

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: for it and knowing that there are other people that potentially are that or potentially like the

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: identify as that basically was welcoming and heartwarming what's to say. So yeah, I think that

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm definitely that for sure. I feel like that. Yeah, it's funny because I also discovered

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: what this was like later on. Like I was in my 20s when I discovered the term and it clicked

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's the experience of so many people like you know, when they come across the term they're

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: like oh so that's why I'm like a little different. Yeah. And I think like it's funny because like

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: in certain places like the places you've grown up in in the UAE in Oman and Bahrain so many of

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: the people around you would have also been third culture kids. So it's funny that you

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: can not have a term for something but still have like a like a shared experience. Yeah,

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: a fueling. Yeah, absolutely. But that's interesting because like like this current generation I'm just

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: going to call this millennials are paying attention to these things and so we're starting to get

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: more aware about this kind of stuff and you know how being a third culture kid impacts you.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Our parents I feel like did not pay attention to that and this is not a

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: this is not me pointing fingers at them. They had different priorities they had to achieve

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: different things and they were like in my case my parents were super brave and left home at a very

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: like a relatively young age and you know made their way into a world where they didn't know the

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: people didn't know the language things like that and so they were basically for the most part

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: in a sort of survival mode and there wasn't enough time to pay attention to that. So we just

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of went along with it and now they're starting to be because for whatever reason we're capable of

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00]: giving mental health and spiritual healing a little bit more space in our lives

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and so we're able to just think about how does my upbringing really impact me and I love that

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we're starting to have this conversation so much that we have an actual term around it.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah absolutely I mean to be fair to our parents I agree with you like a lot of it was survival mode

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_03]: life was very different back in the day but I think the terms actually didn't even exist.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Third culture kid was coined in the 1950s so obviously like they were already around

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_03]: but the research on it was very little at the time and it was actually a term that

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it was an American couple and they were sociologists and anthropologists that went to live in India

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: funny enough and they came up with this term because they were noticing this in other expat

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: children and noticing like there's a shared experience in being a third culture kid no

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: matter what you're you know you don't have to be like American parents growing up in India

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you can be any kind of mix but there's a shared experience. I want to ask you about that actually

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_03]: so there's a lot of different facets to your identity recently becoming a naturalized Canadian

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: is really something I want to dive into but first I want to ask you about growing up in the Gulf region

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: as a kid did you notice any similarities or differences between these countries and cities

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that you lived in because you said you also lived in India at some point like you went back

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and live there how old were you then and how did you kind of make sense of your experience

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: there versus your experience in the Gulf? Yeah I think that I always feel and I say feel in the

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: present tense because this is still true like the Gulf is my home and it's always been such a

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: almost like a lighthouse to me like Dubai especially because I don't really feel that way about India

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: and I love India I really really really love India and I love going there and I love spending

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: time with people there and it's there are a lot of aspects of my personality and identity that

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_00]: are probably Indian we spent most of our time in the UAE let's like Abu Dhabi Dubai, Muscat,

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously and then Doha I changed 10 schools as a kid that's insane a lot that's yeah wow

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: always always always the new girl everywhere I went so that definitely impacted my identity

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and my understanding of these countries I would say that in terms of culture I think that the UAE

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and Doha are definitely like similar ish they used to be I don't know I haven't been to Qatar

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_00]: in a while so I don't know but I think that they're similar ish in that there's this like

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: hostile culture and people are just trying to like achieve something and you have to be

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00]: a certain level of cool and then this isn't school but the one place that it's different

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: and to me till the date is different and because it has the most special place in my heart is Muscat

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I love Oman and I think that it's just different you know like that would be the place that I would

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: retire it's just such a welcoming amazing place and the people are just nicer and feels more at home

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that the other Khalidhi countries were kind of like similar but Oman stands a

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: little different and I think in Oman we when do I say we I mean Indians in this case

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: assimilated ourselves into the Omani society like I had Omani friends my dad had Omani friends

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_00]: we were all together but I think that in the UAE especially that assimilation that kind of

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: community between Indians and expatriate like Filipinos and whoever like expats

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_00]: and even Egyptians like for that matter that connection is not between them between us and

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: the Emiratis doesn't exist as much like at least in my circles that I've seen

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so that made Oman feel more like home like okay I could see myself being here I would like to

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_00]: call this my home and not just a place that I work in but India has always made me feel a little

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: different and it's so funny because ever since I was younger and up until this day people absolute

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: strangers people I don't know like Uber drivers people have just met once find it absolutely

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: essential to tell me that I don't look like an Indian oh that comment yeah right yeah it's triggering

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and it comes from such a weird place because they in their head I love I love how you said

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: comment because it is a comment it is an unsolicited comment but in their head

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a compliment and so I don't like that and even when I was in India people would say that all

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: the time they would say oh you don't look Indian which what am I supposed to do with that yeah

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: like I've been hearing that ever since I was a kid it's like okay well then I'm you know

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: neither here nor there that just that's so so messed up but but like yeah makes me feel a certain way

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: so I think that India has never felt like you know where I could belong I could live there

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: but even as a kid going back was so so awkward because like maya you've met me in person so

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I'm tall almost six and in India the average height is like five five or something

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: like that for for women and so I've always been tall which meant that that that is actually

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: another part of my identity that's like made me feel othered I just want to say two people out there

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: who are not the conventional or mainstream size which really most of us aren't that respect

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: the experiences that your body has had and the experiences that you the lived experience you

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: have had as someone who has lived in that body that's different from what you may see around you

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: as a standard of beauty so I would just say that that's my final kind of part of my identity

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that's important to me that I've been exploring right now and I've been enjoying finding love

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and joy within me towards myself when it comes to being a taller woman so yeah

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah six doesn't mean much to most people because I think most people use the metric system so

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what that means to be honest with you that's almost 185 or so okay so quite

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: tall yeah it's interesting I didn't think to ask you about that but like obviously it is a part of

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: your identity and your experience and I'm sure something that people point out and it's a part

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_03]: of who you are so to go back to that comment so it's a comment I've heard a lot through other

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_03]: guests I've heard it before myself it is a very frustrating comment because it is meant

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: to sound like a compliment right when people make a comment like that you think that being

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: other than your nationality is better this is obviously from the lens of the person who's making

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_03]: that comment and I think it's a bit problematic there's a term for it in Arabic actually uh

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: in Egyptian I think it's a very Egyptian Arabic term I don't know if you're familiar with it

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: but yeah it's it loosely translated it means the foreigners complex yeah no I've heard of that

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: for sure you have okay I think it's a leftover sentiment of colonial times because it's usually

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you have you gotten this comment from westerners or mostly from Indians

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say just Indians I would say Indians and people who were Turkish people who were well

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Middle Eastern as well you know adjacent ethnicities I never get this comment from my

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Caucasian friends but also thankfully my Caucasian friends are not the kind that would comment on

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: something like this like they are not problematic humans I'm just gonna come out and say it I feel

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: like India can be a little racist sometimes in terms of color of the skin so most North Indian

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: people are fair skinned and most South Indian people and this is a this is a gross oversimplification

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: our darker skin and this is a gross oversimplification because my very best friend in the world is

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: South Indian and she is and I'm not afraid to say this to her face pale as a vampire and I am definitely

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_00]: like way tenor but it's interesting because she also has gotten that comment the you don't look like

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: an Indian or you don't look like a South Indian comment multiple times in her own country so

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like I think it comes unfortunately from a racist place so if someone is fair skinned

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_00]: this is all oversimplification and this is all my theorizing like my brain I'm not there's no

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_00]: data that I have personally to back this up but a lot of anecdotal evidence that if someone is

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: quote unquote fair and you know like their hair is lighter then oh they don't look Indian

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: first of all what is looking Indian you know and I've asked this to people who if I've been in

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: mood when people have said this to me that oh you don't look Indian okay what is looking Indian mean

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: what does that even mean to you I really like dark skinned curly hair like what what what does

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that mean it's so messed up I bet you they can't answer that no because because it comes back

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: to the very interesting point that you made that it's unlike something that potentially I see

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in the mirror and you know reject because of some messed up remnant of colonialism

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you know like I've traveled the world and I'm not at all ashamed to say that I'm a queer woman

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: and I go into spaces that are in more like queer and sex positive often and people love Indian

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: women like people people everywhere love Indian women and they're like I have friends who who

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_00]: just like love the color of your skin like call it all sorts of names like caramel cappuccino

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: like all of these names they come up with because they're like oh my god wow your skin is so like

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_00]: beautiful and brown and then back home people are like oh you don't look Indian like what

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: what is it you know you cannot be you're either exoticized or you're ostracized

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: in Hinduism we don't really bury people but if we did bury me that would be on my headstone

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: she was either ostracized or exoticized that's a good line it's such a complicated topic I think

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: because the thing is like what is looking Indian right it's called the Indian subcontinent right

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_03]: for a reason Indians are so diverse I find this topic like difficult to talk about myself because

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it is like I can't pinpoint exactly what it is that pushes people to make

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: a comment like that I think it comes from a place of ignorance that's ultimately what I think

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I also think it kind of comes from you know remnants of colonialism I feel like there

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: are certain nations that really are traumatized by the history that they've had I definitely categorize

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Egypt and India as populations that are traumatized by their past you know a country's history can't be

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_03]: erased partition wasn't that long ago and horrible things happened so it leaves a scar on people

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and it leaves a scar on people's sense of self and sense of identity and these beauty

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_03]: standards that come from the west yeah it sticks around unfortunately yeah I've been diagnosed with

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_00]: body dysmorphia disorder um when I was oh my god when I was 22 yeah like someone who has it i.e. in

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: this case me does not see myself like when I look in the mirror I don't see the same thing that

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_00]: you see so I like actually my brain is wired in a way that it doesn't actually see even me the way

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: that I am so you know these beauty standards can really be harmful and and like I was only diagnosed

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: with it but I'm not being like I'm not being treated for it specifically but it was it's one of

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_00]: those things that I'm working on but I wonder that if these passed down notions they impact

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: just the way that you look at yourself because you know another thing about me is that being tall

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously is one thing but I'm also like I come from a family of just well-built people like

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: my bone structure is just broad which has been such a such such this is again one of those she

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: could be ostracized or exoticized kind of uh kind of thing because a broad bone structure

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: in my case translates to what is popularly called the hourglass figure but in Hindi for instance

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_00]: there's no word for broad so if someone is describing me they're going to use the same word that's

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_00]: used for fat the way your body feels in different places that are part of your identity it's

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: different like I was in New York for two months I felt very comfortable in my body I felt very

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: problems and like showing skin basically but when I'm in India I am wearing the baggiest t-shirts I'm

[00:19:18] [SPEAKER_00]: wearing the baggiest pants because I don't feel comfortable because I feel fat it is again an over

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00]: simplification and usage of the word fat but that's how I feel I'm not saying that's how I am

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's how I feel like if you don't present a certain way and you're not perceived a certain

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: way or you don't think you're perceived a certain way then you're not whatever that society that

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_00]: community's definition in that moment in space and time is of beautiful.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_03]: There's definitely something to I've definitely noticed this like in different environments

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I just feel more comfortable in my skin and there's a lot to do with the gaze of others

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah I can relate to that very much I want to ask you about something that you didn't touch

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03]: upon and I just want to ask if you're comfortable talking about this or not you mentioned once

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_03]: when we were sitting together that your family is Brahmin yes yes that's correct.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this a part of your identity that you identify with what does it mean to you and

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: can you actually explain what it means? Okay in India we have the caste system

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and I say have because it still does exist a little bit and so there are primarily four castes

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's a Brahmin and a Brahmin is essentially a priest and they are the closest to God so

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: they're the clergymen and they were the ones who could understand Sanskrit so they could

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: read God's text then the second one is the Shatriya and the Shatriyas they are warriors

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: kings and the warriors in that like everybody's fighting they're all the Shatriyas and then you

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_00]: have the Veshas and then the Shudras so the Veshas are the merchant class so you're traitors basically

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and then your Shudras and it's interesting because he was when I wouldn't be like google it it says

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_00]: are the quote unquote lowest rank of the caste system quotes mine not theirs

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and they are the artisans and the laborers they're the artisans and laborers yeah that's correct

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03]: one of my favorite books it's written by an Indian author it's called The God of small things

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: have you heard of it? Arun Dati Roy yeah yes Arun Dati Roy yeah it's about a love story

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_03]: between two people of different castes you know what I love about it is that it addresses

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_03]: a complicated topic but it addresses it in such a simple and easy to understand way

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_03]: but I also learned that there was sort of like a fifth caste called the untouchables

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: they're called the achut, achut is the Sanskrit word which literally means untouchables yeah

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know the term what's interesting is that Brahmins are supposed to be the highest

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: caste quote unquote and that is I would say that that is sort of part of my identity

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_00]: even in ways that maybe I don't understand it it's one of those like inbuilt things so fair skin for

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_00]: instance is one of those things that's associated with being a Brahmin because if you're a Brahmin

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: then you spend a lot of time indoors and that is a sign of prosperity that you don't have to

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_00]: outdoors in the sun working away and so therefore you have fair skin and one of the big things is that

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Brahmins typically don't eat meat and not just not eat meat but they let's just say frown upon

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_00]: those that eat meat consider them savage in a way but what really really pisses me off about

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: this whole thing is that it's not something that you chose you were just kind of like born into it

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you feel like you deserve to rest on the laurels of nothing but birth and that's

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: privilege in an inequitable way so I will say that we're blessed in some ways that we were born

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: this way as most quote unquote privileged people are but yeah how do you think it's

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: your identity being a Brahmin so I would say that being a Brahmin has been a part of my identity

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: because I grew up in a household not eating meat and my grandma for her it was a point of pride

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: though we don't eat meat and that were Brahmins and like to this date we do not eat meat and

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: my paternal grandma actually when she was around we didn't even eat or put onions and garlic

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: in anything and I have I've been traveling all over the world primarily in more western communities

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: ever since I was 21 and well I'm 30 now so just to put that in perspective almost 10 years

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: and it was really hard for me in the beginning it was really hard for me to not eat meat

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and to feel like oh I cannot even try this because I am in some way

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: offending my ancestors by you know behaving in this barbaric manner which is the eating of meat

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I would often fall sick and my immunity levels were low you know like I wasn't getting

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_00]: enough protein for me more importantly I was not really experiencing most of these cultures that

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I went to and like traveled to because food is such a big part of going somewhere and I was unable to

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_00]: tap into that and that furthered the kind of other feeling and emotion yeah so

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's interesting I've never really like spoken out loud about this but that is in some ways

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: one of the few things that have impacted the way I felt about being a Brahmin if you will

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_03]: it's so interesting to hear you explain this like eating meat felt like disappointing your ancestors

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_03]: because I don't know if you remember this but I'm a vegetarian I've been vegetarian since I was a

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: young kid much against my parents will and I've been vegan and like fluctuated back and forth between

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03]: vegetarian and veganism but it's a choice that I made like it doesn't carry that same weight that

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_03]: it does for you and I can't imagine how I would feel about this choice because for me it was a

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: choice it's such an odd experience for me to hear you talk about this I really can't imagine how

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_03]: it feels yeah do you eat meat today have you moved away from that or is it still a part of your

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_00]: identity I eat meat and I well my parents have been so open about it like my dad will joke once in a

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: while like oh my god you know that's disgusting like why are you doing this blah blah and my mom

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_00]: was in fact the person who encouraged me to consider it she said that I couldn't change

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: my ways but if you want to live the life that you want to live which is traveling moving around

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: things like that so then you should consider eating meat you should consider keeping yourself open

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_00]: it'll make life easier for you and it has it really really has made life easier for me

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and then it's a choice as well right like so it was your decision to explore what you wanted

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really glad to hear that your parents were supportive of that I think it's

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_03]: having choices is such a wonderful thing I think no matter what you end up choosing

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to choose and people around you not to make you feel

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_03]: shame for your choices as well said yeah it's heavy that we have to carry these notions

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_03]: of the past with us today yeah even when you were describing the caste system and the four

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: castes the idea that like you know brahman's day indoors or their fair skinned even that's

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_03]: something that existed in the west at some point like in the UK when you were a lord

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03]: you didn't work working actually was seen as a lower class thing you own land and you had

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_03]: workers to me it's wild that these notions like it's not that long ago by the way I mean

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_03]: like these things existed in the early 1900s yeah I feel like in India is obviously like

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_03]: much much before that yeah of course maybe because I didn't experience it and it's just

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: something that sounds so foreign to me well actually think about it this way is it foreign

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: though because it's the human kind of need to divide in order to understand and our

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: oversimplification of identity for instance intersectional identity is such a new kind

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: of term I have only now started not just to hear it but to be able to use it hopefully in the

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_00]: right context we have always divided people based on whatever is simplest for the system or

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_00]: whoever's in charge and so the caste system is just another kind of a division method that

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00]: unfortunately exists and then obviously the British exploited it because what did they not

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00]: when they came over unannounced and uninvited

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_03]: how do you identify in this intersectional identity like what does it mean to you

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that it depends on the space you're in as what you identify as like in my case at

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: least that's what I've seen but at the core of it I do identify as a queer woman of color

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the elder daughter in a brown household that is now a naturalized Canadian it's a lot of things

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_00]: but it touches upon the things that I care about I've been thinking lately about

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_03]: you know these terms person of color these terms come from a very western Caucasian base

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_03]: because no white person is saying I'm a white person like I'm a non-colored person

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: that's so interesting yeah I mean like I'm Brazilian Egyptian I'm biracial but even that is

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's such a charged term and growing up in the Middle East I never thought of myself as

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: a person of color I only started thinking of myself as that when I started consuming more western media

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that's so true yeah so I think that's where I have a bit of a it doesn't quite sit well with me

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: like I feel like it's a very it comes from a very white space yeah actually one last thing I will

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_00]: say on this is that when you were saying this what came up for me is similar to that in a different

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of aspect of identity I don't like the term coming out like I don't like coming out coming

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00]: out of what what do you mean coming coming out to whom I've always known I'm queer why do I

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: need to come out to you you can come into my world where I am yeah right mm-hmm you can come into my

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: world and experience you know my definition of being queer but why should I come out to you

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_00]: i.e the world I don't know you anything and I feel like that's that's similar like it comes from

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: the perspective of for the case of this argument the majority in question or at least the majority in

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_03]: power the majority in power yeah but I think the just switching that coming out to who why don't you

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_03]: come into my world that was mind-blowing to me it's so true like it makes a lot more sense

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_03]: wow like that yeah that kind of blew my mind a little so tell me about your queer identity

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: what queer means to you queer to me is not queer as in not queer just as in sexuality

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: or identity or who you sleep with or who you choose not to sleep with but queer as in at odds

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: with your environment queer in thought and not queer in sexuality just in sexuality I think it

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: comes from a defensive place that i'm defining it this way and not defensive for me but defensive

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: for some people in my life who identify as asexual or aromantic even in some cases

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and I've thought of them as queer because of them being at odds with the world around them

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: and that is the definition of the word queer as well like we've reclaimed it now

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: but that's where the word queer actually means is different unfortunately its meaning was morphed

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_00]: into being strange I think like it became a oh he's queer or she's queer or whatever

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: but now that way you're reclaimed it and made it queer with a capital Q I think it's just

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: that that's what I would say it is for me and I do get challenged on this definition

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think that's just my you know just how I think of it because my own queer identity has

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_00]: been so fluid ever changing in fact someone once told me like very recently someone said that's

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_00]: my identity my identity is ever changing and I thought that was beautiful interesting you

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_00]: know like I came out as bisexual this is not even like a coming out you know there was just like

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_00]: an informing people and people being like oh yeah we knew that about you bisexual was the one identity

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_00]: or rather the one for the lack of a better word honestly label that I felt like I chose for myself

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we talked about choice earlier in the show and how that can be empowering in this case it was

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00]: because I picked this because I claimed this for myself then bisexual you know has it has a problematic

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: for many reasons it has a problematic connotation which is that it has the word buy in it

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_00]: or rather the prefix buy in it and for some reason that has been taken as oh you're bisexual

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: means you're just erasing the possibility of more than one gender identity that's not what it

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is of course then I try down pansexual for size and I really did try on pansexual for size like I

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_00]: tested out and see how it feels to identify myself as pansexual it didn't feel right simply because

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't picked it I had been pigeonholed in a way because I wanted to show the world that

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I obviously acknowledge that there's more than one gender but I like being buy so I went back

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_00]: from being pan to being buy because I wanted to pick the thing that I'd chosen for myself and I had

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: a special place in my heart for it and that made me think that I am so done with being you know like

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: buy or pan or whatever and also thinking about pronouns like I don't always feel like a she sometimes

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: some days I feel like a baby like I actually connect to that more and I started to think about how

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I think of myself in this context and I just felt most comfortable calling myself queer

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: because I felt that this other part of my identity can always shift and change and it is obviously

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it is a spectrum and so every day is different like I present and I feel different feelings on every

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: day but every day I'm queer like it doesn't it doesn't really matter who am I attracted to

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_00]: that day I'm queer no matter what day you pick out of the calendar and so I start with queer as

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just the easiest way and I also kind of I really love the confusion that people have

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_00]: because you know like some people really are like what is queer like what is it what is she gay

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_00]: is she a lesbian is she you know like is she bi like what is it and I love not explaining to

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: them I work so hard to assimilate that in my identity that I'm not backing out now

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00]: if you're the kind of person who is impacted by that that is a you problem

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: it's so interesting because to me what it what it sounds like and maybe this is not

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe I'm misinterpreting but to me what it sounds like is like you tried on different things

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that are maybe like a little bit more rigid and then you gravitated towards queer because

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it allowed you that freedom to to change just to be whatever you want it to be on that day

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that's what it sounds like to me I think that's so succinct I feel a little

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_00]: therapist right now not gonna lie in the best way but I have that feeling like when my therapist

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: says something profound I'm like huh okay yeah I see where you're coming from and no no that

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I think you hit the nail on the head yeah thank you for taking the time to explain it I know that

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_03]: not everybody is always open to explaining what they mean by queer and I think it's really helpful

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: because it's helpful for me to understand different people's intention with the word

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think there's something liberating about the word I myself I'm still forming my own ideas

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: around it and what it means and what it entails but it's very interesting to listen to

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03]: your thought process and your journey so thank you for letting me in on that no of course

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to shift the conversation to a big change that recently happened in your life

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_03]: so mid 20s you moved to Canada to work or to pursue your studies to work actually

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_03]: to work and recently so summer 2023 you got the Canadian citizenship it was a long process

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_03]: but at the very end of this process two things happened you had to renounce your Indian passport

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: so I want to ask you about that the feelings around that and then the second thing that

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_03]: happened is you were sworn in so one of the last steps to achieving your Canadian citizenship is

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: getting like sworn in and I don't know you have to like pledge to whoever's in charge of the British

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Commonwealth of Nations which Canada's a part of and currently that's King Charles so I want

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to ask you about the both of these events we'll start with the second one because I haven't

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: like officially given up my passport just yet like I have to okay well I kind of have in a way that I've

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_00]: like locked it up and put it away because it's not worth anything to me right now but we can

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_00]: we can start with the second one because that that's so fresh like it's been it's been a few

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00]: months but it feels really fresh yes so you got it right when you get sworn in there's a lot of steps

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_00]: to becoming a citizen your application etc you take a test which for me I was like yes I take a test

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_00]: and I get to prove how good I am amazing I'm such an nerd I I know that like when they told me

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that oh you just have to get like 15 questions out of 20 questions right to pass I'm like no no

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: if I don't get 20 out of 20 right in my mind I have failed like it's just that's how it is

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and I took it and I did get 20 out of 20 right so at the end of it all at the end of like the

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00]: last thing is this process of your citizenship oath ceremony part of your oath ceremony

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you have well you take an oath of course and then you sing the Canadian national anthem both in

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_00]: English and in French and that's it like the you know like they show you a current video

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_00]: and then that's it you're done and I cried during line so unfortunately mine couldn't happen

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_00]: in person because we're not doing ceremonies in person right now I think that they have just

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00]: realized that it's easier to manage and handle and cheaper I'm guessing to do them on Zoom

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_00]: so mine happened in Zoom on Zoom with like 120 other people and we had this really amazing person

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_00]: presiding over the ceremony I will never forget his name Douglas McKinnon and he was this sweet

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_00]: slightly older white man and McKinnon so I'm guessing he's Irish he gave this really beautiful

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: speech and it was so heartfelt and it was not at all he was not reading it out from a piece of

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: paper like he gave a speech to all of us he recognizes how hard it has been and he said you have all

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_00]: gone through so much and done so many things and really been through a lot to be here

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and he said a lot of things and I cheered up during all of that but when I really lost it was

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: at the end of his speech he said welcome home that even thinking about it right now is bringing

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: up some emotions good emotions good wholesome emotions but it felt really nice to first of

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: all to be acknowledged that way and also just the words welcome home because Canada's really

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_00]: feel like home and despite all of my like wanting to move to New York right now and you know things like

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: that Canada is still my home like I would not renege on that for anything or anyone. Another

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00]: moments that really stood out to me after the ceremony is done our videos are off

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_00]: for pretty much the whole time but their videos come on when we all take the oath together

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_00]: because the ceremony is being recorded for legal or whatever purposes they have to see you

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: say every word of the oath so our videos come on and it was such a beautiful moment

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_00]: when I saw like all of those other 118 people switched their videos on and all of the different

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_00]: ethnicities that they were from and you know they had so many different things in their

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00]: backgrounds and the like the colors of everybody's skin was so different from the person like in the

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_00]: window next to them and I was so happy and so proud that day to call myself a Canadian and to

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_00]: have picked this place because I didn't feel alone and I didn't feel othered in that moment

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_00]: because there were so many of us and still we were all different in in our own ways

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't even know their stories like I'm just saying from you know their faces and the colors of

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_00]: their skin but each of them has such a different and rich story to offer.

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Also that really stayed with me and then of course we had the oath which brought up some things

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: because I remember thinking while I was taking the oath that my ancestors kicked

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: King Charles's ancestors out of the country and it was a whole thing to gain freedom and now I find

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_00]: myself in this position where I'm pledging my fealty to this person and somewhere somewhere

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00]: my ancestors must be rolling in their graves because they were like oh we were trying to get you away

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: from that and you went right in you know like right in you went there. So it made me feel

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: strange saying those words and I'm a writer and so words are very important to me they carry a

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_00]: lot of meaning and I don't like I even when I was saying it I wasn't just saying it for the

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: sake of saying it like it is a really beautifully written oath yeah and of course there's King Charles

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_00]: in the beginning you have to acknowledge him but then in the end like you also acknowledge

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00]: the First Nations Inuit and Metis people of Canada and I found that to be really beautiful

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_00]: like you acknowledge the indigenous peoples that came before

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: the colonizers did. So it's so interesting that you mentioned you were thinking of your ancestors

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_03]: who obviously kicked the British out of India and Pakistan because I wanted to ask you about that

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: like how that made you feel and I think a lot of times people look at gaining a citizenship as a

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: like as a very logical methodical thing that you have to do to make your life easier

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_03]: because there is such a thing as passport privilege but it's also a deeply emotional journey

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_03]: because you do become a part of this like when you were saying the welcome home

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I got chills just that sentiment and you know seeing people from all over

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I would imagine that's incredibly emotional. So emotional yeah I had my story when I was online

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: in my very best friend's home and she was there for part of it she was there and she has been

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_00]: so important and continues to be so important and when he said welcome home I really did tear

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_00]: up because it was in a place in a country that I feel at home in with a person that I feel

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_00]: at home in a space and time in the universe that I felt at home in and another beautiful moment for me

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_00]: is that after you finish your oath you have to sign the oath document and then email it to them

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and then you apply for your passport after you get your citizenship certificate and

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_00]: the day I went to get my passport I remember taking that passport and walking out of that

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_00]: building and having a big big cry because I realized in that moment that I am now the citizen of a

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: country where I can be anything I want like I will not be asked to change my identity I will not

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_00]: be asked to change anything about me like I can be queer I can decide to live in a like a poly

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: commune for all intents and purposes like nobody will care not that I need to make those choices

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but to know that those choices exist that was such a powerful moment a moment of blessing and privilege

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: even so Canada was your choice and it opens up all the options for you yeah it definitely was my

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_00]: choice like and I think that that's why I'm so attached even though I don't live there anymore

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but I'm attached to Vancouver because that was the first city after moving around for so many

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00]: cities all my life and I love that like and you know like that's not a bad thing I even I tell my

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: parents that I thank them for that exposure because it prepared me for life but Vancouver

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_00]: was the one place that I looked at the map and I said this is a place that I want to go

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_03]: how did you make that decision as a 24 year old like how did you decide

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00]: oh that's the universe told me to like it's so woo woo but it really does feel like the universe

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_00]: told me to because it's one of those decisions sometimes we make the decision and we don't

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_00]: know why we're making it but like when we're acting it out it is clear to us why we made it

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_00]: so you know we trust our instincts and we trust our gut and we say this is it for me I don't know why

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00]: yet because I'm not able to explain it to you but I just know why first of all congratulations

[00:47:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's it is a long process to apply for a citizenship and to get it into you know finally

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: be at the end of that journey at the end of that journey and also the beginning of a new

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_03]: journey of like being Canadian so I'm very happy for you I remember talking about this before it

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: happened and now you're a Canadian so that's amazing thank you how does it make you feel

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_03]: about your Indian heritage and your relationship to India I think in a way it makes me feel

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00]: more comfortable because there was this kind of feeling that whenever I go back to India I felt

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_00]: like oh my god I'm gonna have to stay here because I'm Indian and like I'm gonna have to come back here

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and so it didn't feel like a tether and unfortunately felt more like a dead weight

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and when I went to India this time for a couple months I had gone as someone who had already

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_00]: applied for a Canadian citizenship she had already passed her test and was just waiting

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_00]: for her citizenship ceremony to be scheduled this is one of the best times I've had there

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_00]: because it felt like I don't have to necessarily make home out of this this could be one of the places I

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_00]: belong but I don't have to belong in this place all the time I have a place that I belong in

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_00]: have a place that in the longer term really home for sure as Douglas McKinnon said so it's complicated

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_00]: definitely and but that also has helped me explore certain aspects of being Indian so one of the things

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: that I love love mythology and folktales and folklore and so I've started to read more Indian

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_00]: mythology and Indian folktales I think I was able to tell you about the caste system and talk

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_00]: about it because I've done some reading around it and now that I have some healthy distance from

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and not this kind of a dead weight feeling attached to it I want to get to know that part of me better

[00:50:03] [SPEAKER_00]: because I realized that it is a part of my identity and it's a part that I'm really proud

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_00]: of because it's colorful it's musical it's loud it's multifaceted I know that it's

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_00]: not something to shy away from or rather I'm learning that it's not something to shy away

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_00]: from but something to get to know better and it's been such an interesting journey because now that

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I feel more relaxed in my identity or one of the facets of my identity as a Canadian I feel like

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I can explore other parts of my identity without feeling untethered because now I have a tether

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_03]: that's a very interesting observation that you know now that you are a Canadian you feel

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_03]: like you can explore different facets of being Indian of all the places that you've

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_03]: lived in no matter how long or short of a time you spent there not just where is the location

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_03]: when that you felt the most belonging but why if you've been able to pinpoint why I'd be

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_00]: curious to know let's talk that's a really tough one I think belonging comes internally

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_00]: like a lot of it comes internally so you know where where you've been in that moment in time and

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_00]: space with yourself and your surroundings are a big part of that well recency bias would make the

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_00]: answer in New York because I was there for two months and I really feel like I belong there in a

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_00]: way that you know when you're watching like a fantasy show or reading a fantasy book and you

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: have the character and the character has his destiny and no matter what the character does to

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_00]: escape the destiny the destiny comes back for the character and so like New York feels like that

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: to me where I fit where there's place for me but the other one is actually there was this time

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: last year when I was hanging out with one of my other very very very best friends in the

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: whole wide world but we've been friends for 20 years and we were hanging out in her house in

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_00]: her childhood home and we were doing the things that we did when we were kids well actually

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00]: I was reading a book and then she took a picture of me and when I saw that picture I was for the

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_00]: first time in a very very very long time felt like I am exactly where I'm supposed to be

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and I think that has stayed with me that feeling has stayed with me because you know the people

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_00]: make the place and her presence and the presence of my family nearby just familiar

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_00]: circumstances and I think that that can apply to New York as well as like the people make the place

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and I find magical people yeah I've carried carried that feeling with me ever since and

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I've carried it all the way to the other side of the world that I am exactly where I'm supposed to be

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_03]: now we're moving into the final segment of the show where I asked you about an

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_03]: untranslatable word that you use that doesn't exist in English and I'm very curious to see what you

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_03]: bring and also because you're a writer so I'm sure it's going to be a very well-picked word no pressure

[00:53:40] [SPEAKER_00]: the word that I did pick is Hindi and it is a really silly word the word is bindas the

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_00]: closest thing that I can come up is someone who is so so laid back like so laid back that it like

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_00]: even on a spectrum of being like cool to lay back they are they are at the bindas level like they

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_00]: don't give a shit like they are it's a quality that you exhibit so I would say that it's

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_00]: like I felt pretty bindas in New York this summer because it makes me feel that way it's a place

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that makes me feel like everything's going to be okay no matter what and I think of my mom when

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I think of bindas because she's so so so cool and like she does not care at all what people

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_00]: think about her and she's such such a go-getter and I always say that if I had like 5% of whatever

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it is that mom is mom is on you know like I could be ruling the world so my mom has been

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_00]: bindas and then when I think of bindas I think of like snoob dog you know

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_00]: people who people who have just like finished the main quest of life and are side-questing right now

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_01]: like sorry it's just no no no no

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_03]: so that's a wrap for today if you've enjoyed this conversation don't forget to hit subscribe

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03]: to never miss an episode the in between is pod is created and hosted by Beatrice Noor

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: the behind the scenes magic is thanks to Habiba Adruby and original music is composed and produced

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: by Melec and Mercedes I love hearing from our listeners so feel free to reach out to me anytime

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_03]: join us every other Tuesday and remember the quest for belonging never ends and you are not

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_03]: alone keep exploring keep embracing and keep celebrating that in betweenish life